feeding tube/bag decision

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My, my. Seymour is quite the big boy! I have never seen a feeding tube of that size. Mine is about 5 inches long, soft and pliable, and doesn't have that monster clamp on it. Doctors ought to be required to live with a feeding tube for a while before they choose which one to put in!

Gracious, the pump is not at all a necessity with a feeding tube. It is sometimes used to slow feed at first to help the adjustment to tube feedings. Others use it to run overnight in order to get enough food in for a day. It is sometimes easier than multiple feedings for someone who can't tolerate a full can at once. Most often though, feedings are simply put through the tube using a 60 cc syringe as a funnel and letting it flow by gravity.
 
Just a note that using "general anesthesia" (a gastro placing the tube in an OR) is not the preferred procedure in ALS; rather, a radiologist placing it w/ the person awake, and on BiPAP if s/he needs it. Not all hospitals do this, or have someone who knows how to do it in ALS (where, for example, various muscles all the way down can be weak and anatomy therefore different). If you choose a tube, seek out a center where the expertise exists.
 
Just a note that using "general anesthesia" (a gastro placing the tube in an OR) is not the preferred procedure in ALS; rather, a radiologist placing it w/ the person awake, and on BiPAP if s/he needs it. Not all hospitals do this, or have someone who knows how to do it in ALS (where, for example, various muscles all the way down can be weak and anatomy therefore different). If you choose a tube, seek out a center where the expertise exists.

Interesting, was not aware of this good question for the surgeon.
 
My neuro recommends very strongly the radiological procedure for all PALS.
 
Steve had it done in interventional radiology both times
 
Thanks Lynda, Seymour can be a real pistol when he's hungry.

Grace, the food is poured in the bag with purple top, then threaded through the pump, the pump is primed until the formula is at the end. Then attach to feeding tube (Seymour), set the pump, & you are good till its done. Every once in a while it throws an error signal, I squeeze the bag or just restart and it's ok. My home health nurse had it set really slow so after we learned about it we upped the setting which sped it up a bit. I prefer to use the syringe or gravity feed, it's faster. I tried to load syringe pics but they were sideways, I'll try again.

I'm starting to really miss regular foods, crunchy, snacks, chewing meat, going to the fridge or pantry pulling out what I want and chowing down. Ugh!
 
I had a GI Dr. do my feeding tube, we chose to go local rather than having it done by the radiologist at Mayo, Jacksonville over 3 hours away. They said if I wasn't local I would have to stay longer in a Hotel. I may consider doing that when it needs to be changed out now that I know what to expect. Thank you everyone for the very helpful suggestions.
Kat
 
Seymour is the same kind as we had, but we called ours Peggy. We even used to have me singing silly songs to the old Peggy Sue tune ...

I will jump in and say get it EARLY if you are going to do it at all. I respect any PALS who elects not to take the PEG at all. But to wait until you are emaciated, dehydrated and have breathing issues is asking for big problems. I know it as it is exactly what my Chris did. He was very lucky at all because once he finally said he was ready it was going to be a 3 month wait and he would not have lived that long. He was unlucky because he left it so long he had a terrible time adjusting to feeds as his whole digestive system was in trouble because he had eaten so little for so long.

So I would highly recommend getting your husband to look seriously at all sides of the issue and make a good informed decision. If he decides he still does not want one, you can support him in this. If he does, then get it moving now.
 
"So I would highly recommend getting your husband to look seriously at all sides of the issue and make a good informed decision."

Can someone explain all sides? I keep hearing the no choking and no dehydration and weight loss arguments in favor of, but no one is really saying anything against? For me it is just seems that I don't want the evasiveness of the tube, and I don't see the point in slowing things down. Are there other arguments?
 
risk of the procedure ( small if done by a competent interventional radiologist at the appropriate time)
Risk of infection postop ( also quite small)
If you wait too long there can be issues with your body accepting feeding again and even if not too late it can take several tries to get an appropriate formula if you don't blend
Where I live aides from agencies are not allowed to do tube feedings. That said a regular aide often does the feedings off the record. It is very easy to learn. Any family could learn. A PALS could do their own if they have use of hands
I can't think of anything else
 
if I decide no peg how do I die? How long?
 
Hard to know Max. If you can't take in any liquid at all usually 7-10 days. But my mom was just getting less and less and her body just gave out from a combination of malnutrition dehydration and weakness probably. It could be breathing it could be infection as well. Please don't decide just to stop eating drinking. Someone in another group chose to end it that way and he said it was not a good way to go when he was partway through but I guess felt he wanted to finish at that point.
Obviously different than the natural gradual lessening
 
I'm sure there's no one answer as to how long it would take. My husband and I agree that one of the worst things about this disease is the not knowing. Not knowing how long he'll be able to eat real foods. Not knowing how long he'll have the use of his arms. The list of "not knowing" seems endless.

It actually makes us wish that everyone progressed at the same rate and in the same fashion so that many of those questions would be answered and so that you would be able to follow a list of steps you would need to take. I'm sure that sounds selfish of me and I apologize for that. I'm blabbing. My heads all over the place with all of this. I can't even imagine how my husband feels. :/
 
I can give another "against" argument but it is an individual thing. We explored the tube for Larry, but medically because of his other conditions couldn't find a qualified IR nearby who wanted to do it, and felt disinclined to run after it with travel so difficult. As it happened, and will not be true for all, 2 years after it was recommended, he was still eating, albeit soft food and slowly. He did not lose significant weight after the first months of ALS, when his arms melted away.

He never lost the ability to swallow or talk, but the end was signaled when chewing became "exhausting" and he would not have been a smoothie guy -- he actually did better with thin liquids for the most part, though like many of you, he had coughing episodes. He couldn't use a Cough Assist and the suction machine made things worse after a couple of months. So we kept him upright till they passed and tweaked the BiPAP (which he was on nearly 24/7 with a nasal mask) throughout each ep.

The end of chewing, at which time we moved on to pudding and such, was pretty much the time that he began experiencing air hunger, the last 2 weeks of life. All in all, he was worn out-- so it was then that I asked his doc to write morphine for the first time. You can figure out the rest. He drank and ate a little a couple of hours before he died. He wasn't suffering.

So the "against" is -- if you aren't particularly in "life at all costs" mode, you can roll the dice if you want, and it may not be as bad as you think. Or it could be worse. Heed Nikki's story about her mom and sister. That could be you.

Larry's eyes were open -- he saw a fellow PALS in person w/ a tube (Zoohouse's Tim, a great guy with an awesome partner in life) and he wasn't afraid of it. I do encourage anyone considering it to see one in person or close up on line. But Larry didn't want it enough to go to extraordinary lengths and likely complications (if it could have been placed at all). For you, Pete, the procedure would be less arduous but that doesn't mean, I recognize, that it is any more desirable.

Is there a way to know? Some obvious signals that your life without a tube would be worse than Larry's would include frequent choking, a very limited diet, weight loss, dehydration, nausea and/or vomiting and worsened breathing with eating. If you have any of those things now, you might look to your diet and BiPAP settings first, but after that, you might be looking at the tube if you wanted to be around for a while. And as others have pointed out, if you delay, it can be a very timely proposition and you might rescind your original choice too late to return to your starting point.

One final statement I have made before. If one of you opts out of the tube for whatever reason, and things do not go well, you would then be suffering, and might then ask for enough morphine so as to be more comfortable. Similarly, if you get a tube, sooner or later, things are likely to take a turn for other reasons, such as breathing. You need not go out in the same state that getting a tube seeks to avoid. ALS claims your life, but it needn't claim your death.

--Laurie
 
As I have mentioned in other post, my b1tch began with breathing. I am now at an FVC of 48% prone. I can still chew and swallow although my jaw gets fatigued and if I over eat my breathing gets worse. Choking is not a big issue currently and I can use all my limbs though painfully/awkwardly at times. Alkea-Seltzer has all but removed the mucus issue. Additionally I feel like I am loosing some of my mental capabilities. In November of 2014 my breathing was 100% prone.

While I know we cannot predict the b1tches path it would seem that my breathing end will come before my eating. Like Laurie suggested I have looked at pictures of both the DPS and PEG online and it does not look like something I want. I will be talking to the surgeon next Friday about both things and will listen but am leaning away from it.

The choices we have to make with this disease are unbelievable - thank all of you for being there.
 
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