Advice for the Tracheostomy/Advocating

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Tess77

New member
Joined
Jul 11, 2021
Messages
9
Reason
CALS
Diagnosis
07/2021
Country
US
State
IL
City
Chicago
My dad was fairly unhappy with his feeding tube procedure; He wanted to be put fully under but they did local anesthesia instead and he said that it was very uncomfortable. They had to do the procedure under emergency conditions; because he wanted to wait as long as possible. He has a very similar feeling about the tracheostomy, so I don't know when he'll be ready. Assuming he decides to get the trache: I can't imagine they would do the trache without general anesthesia, But I was wondering if there is anything else I need to know to ask or make sure he understands for the trache?

I live 1000 miles away so I've never been to any of his clinics so I feel like I don't get as in depth detail on the options. My dad is having a very hard time communicating; he didn't use his Tobii until after the procedure, I think because he realized after this that he needs to be able to communicate with his doctors.

I guess I just want to be prepared to know what I need to be advocating for and get his opinions on before hand?
 
He has been advised a trach? And wants one? Where is he living / will he live after ? Who will care for him? I know you didn’t ask but last you posted he was living in his condo and didn’t have a lot of support. Life with a trach takes a lot of support
 
I've had a trach for over two years. I got the feeding tube at the same time and was under for the procedure. The feeding tube was actually more painful . Definitely better work on how to communicate. Unless he has good use of arms and hands, someone will have to be around24-7. Trach care is not difficult and almost anyone can be trained. If he wants to live with this disease, there's really no choice but to do it. I was in the hospital for two weeks. Before that I had never spent the night in a hospital
 
if countries can step up with providing around the cloc care I'm sure more pals will go down trach path. Is a shame
 
Yeah it’s been a while since I last posted. Where he lives has been an ordeal. Short story is the hospital has said they will help place him in one of the nursing homes that can handle the trache.

He was in a second story condo and didn’t want to move. My mom (theyre divorced) had a liver transplant and the second time he fell on the stairs she told him either he moves or she was going to move there and use her time off she got for transplant recovery to take care of him. He agreed to move but not to a city near one of us. He chose an independent living near his friends in his city. Shortly after he got on the list for that place he couldn’t leave the condo due to the stairs and spent 6 weeks there with my aunt bringing him food.

He did work with a housing contact from the ALS clinic for a while, but didn’t like any options she had so found his own: independent living in a place that has independent, assisted and skilled nursing. I definitely tried to reiterate to him and everyone that I thought home health aids and in home nursing were the way to go.

The independent living was not much better. I visited and I was horrified - so scared he was starving to death. I live 1000 miles away and he would not move closer to me. I found home health aides but he would not let me hire them for him. I just remember the zoom call where my mom was balling begging him to let us hire someone to come in. Someone had convinced him he could go into assisted living. I did try to tell him that from what I’ve read that was a bad idea.

He called me one weekend unable to get out of bed. He wanted me to get him into assisted living. When I tried they said they couldn’t take him, but could take him in nursing. At that point he was immobile and I couldn’t hire home health aids fast enough to cover the time he needed care for; so he went into the nursing temporarily. I know it’s not the best option but there was literally nothing else I could do. I did try to broach the subject of doing 24/7 home health aids a few weeks later but he refused because it’s too expensive so he choose to stay in skilled nursing.

I will say that the nursing home has kept he weight up! He must have lost 70 lbs in the 6-8 months before going in and has lost only 3 since being there 6 months. I was so scared he would starve to death on his own. I think the biggest problem is he is so scared at night when lying in bed that they will put him in a position where he can’t breathe.

Also because I know I will get questions. My husband has a job he can not leave. I won’t get into it but he has a once in a lifetime job and I won’t ask him to destroy his career. I can’t leave my husband and two kids (4&6). I don’t know how I would leave my husband with the kids or leave him and take the kids and take care of my dad. I tried to get my dad to move to me. But that is the reason I can’t move to where my dad is.
 
I hope no one would expect you to move. Even without your husband’s job it would not be fair to have to uproot your life ( and your family) for a temporary situation. I am sorry he won’t move. I is his right but that means you can only do so much. Very hard for you and your mom

Thank you for explaining that there is a plan for care. I am glad there are nursing homes there that take vents

Good luck
 
I'm sorry to hear about this no-win situation.

ALS with a trach in a nursing home without family nearby, friends notwithstanding, is very, very scary to me from the standpoint of suctioning when needed, preventing infection, and optimal tube feeding, to name a few concerns. I would try as hard as possible to make sure he really understands that a trach will make him more dependent on staff, and that it does not stop the progression of the disease. Jimi's situation is very different since he lives at home and has family support there.

Am I correct that he is currently using BiPAP? Most PALS can use that for the duration of the disease. Has he been told differently, as per Nikki's question? If he is doing well in his current facility, I would try very hard to keep him there.

That said, I would engage a senior nurse advocate where he lives to at least stop by periodically and see what's going on since it may be fine now, but staffing, leadership, and conditions change. Of course, if you can induce him to provide HIPAA permission for this person to see his records, all the better.
 
I used a BiPap until my throat completely closed down and it sounded like a whoopie cushion all night. So I got the trach 18 months ago and am now on two ventilators almost full time. But I love the trach. I take care of it all by myself and it really has been less of a hassle than the feeding tube I had put in six weeks ago.

You asked what questions and here's what I learned about the trach. There are basically two kinds of trachs and surgery: transcutaneous (through the skin) which is a super simple procedure. Like the feeding tube, I was told it was about a 20 minute procedure. The first ENT I saw wanted me to do this but then I had a doctor friend suggest another ENT and he told me that since my disease was so aggressive (in other words, I don't have long to live) - that I'd be much better off getting a "permanent trach".

The transcutaneous trach is a relatively minor procedure, often done at the bedside or in the ED, is easily reversible. That's the good news. The bad news is that since the tract from the skin to the trachea is left open, granulomas are very common. And the tracheal granulomas are much, much more problematic (painful and bloody) than the ones with a feeding tube. The permanent trach is done in surgery, takes an hour or more and involves cutting a notch in the trachea and skin and suturing them together. In other words, you have a closed tract so fewer granulomas or other problems. For me, I had very little pain after the trach surgery especially compared to the feeding tube which got a minor infection.

Before the feeding tube, my throat muscles would decide, with some food or drink halfway between my mouth and my stomach, to just stop and take a break. This would leave me with food or drink in my throat and no way to breathe. I developed several aspirational pneumonias as a result. The first time this happened with the trach (before the feeding tube), I just told myself to relax and breathe slowly through the trach. After a few minutes, the muscles in my throat came back and the food went where it belonged.

The other suggestion is to find a great DME. The first one I had was a disaster and so I found a team of Respiratory Therapists who run a DME. Not only to they make sure I have the best supplies; they are on call 24 X 7 X 365. For the first year with the trach and vents, the came out about once a week to check on me.

Now, the really bad news. AFTER I got the trach I found that there is no assisted living facility that will take me. They all tell me their insurance won't cover trachs and vents. Worse, I was told to go onto hospice. However, I was told that since I have a trach and on a ventilator, the hospice team cannot take me off the vent. But here's the really bad news, none of the hospice folks in my area can provide the trach or vent supplies. Catch 22.

So my respiratory therapists who handle this all the time with ALS patients, suggested I skip hospice and get a good palliative team - which I did and we have a good end of life plan in place w/o hospice. My daughters are also over 1000 miles away and I haven't needed them (one is an MD).

My wife has terminal cancer that has caused serious dementia and I'm her primary caregiver. However, the feeding tube, trach, vents, and power wheelchair are all managed by me with some help such as my team of RTs who handle the breathing stuff. Plus, we hire caregivers from time to time when we feel a bit overloaded.

Oh and we live in a retirement home and so my wife's meals are all prepared by the home. The net/net: Your dad may be able to handle it with a little help and a bunch of motivation. Good luck. Once we patients come to grips with this terrible disease, I think it's harder on those we love than us.
 
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Thank you so much. That is very helpful to know. I didn’t think to reach out to facilities that do the trach care and ask what hospice looks like with the trach!

I’m absolutely blown away that you are caring for your wife and your own trach and feeding tube. That is truly amazing.
 
Igelb, yes I think he will choose to not get it. He would need to move away from his friends and I think that would be psychologically very hard. He is on some kind of external vent 24-7 He told me it was CPAP but he very well could be mistaken. I tried to figure out last year, but he told me to drop the subject. I haven’t actually attended one of his appointments with his pulmonologist my mom and Aunt made it sound like they advised him to get the trach or told him he could get it at anytime. My concern is that he gets so scared at night on the vent. He tells me all the time he is terrified the nursing staff will leave him in a position where he can’t breathe it’s one of his biggest concerns and fears.
 
I don't post here often anymore. I lost my PALS 5 years go. He was trached and vented for 8 years. The biggest issue is they keep losing abilities. You've mentioned that your Dad can't move much or change his bed position. If he gets a trach and vent, he would need someone in ear shot 24/7. If the hose pops off and he cannot replace it, that is very dangerous. If he need suctioned and no one can hear that, it is also very dangerous. If he won't agree to private care, I don't think a skilled nursing facility has the staff available to handle a trach on an ALS patient.

In my area, there are not facilities capable of that. There are few that can handle trachs/vents, but they are on patients that have the ability to help themselves with it. Also where I live, hospice is not an option for a tached and vented person. They will only come in to do a vent wean, meaning taking him off the vent in which case he would pass.

I don't want to be negative about the vent, but all things need to be considered when choosing one. I had to be with my husband 24/7. When Obamacare came into being, no insurance will cover private duty nursing and you have to have a vent trained nurse, generally an RN. Aides are not allowed to touch either. It is very costly, so I managed and my DS helped out a couple of days a week after work. My DD was in college at the time when things got very intense.

I hope you can figure out the best direction for your dad.

Hugs to you.
 
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