The selling of Jesus....

[Clearwater AL]

Again, being brought up in a very religious family I was taught God
was a loving God and there was nothing beyond his power. Nothing
beyond his power.

Does that apply to just those here who put their faith in him but not
those in Sudan and other countries where misery, starvation, disease
has millions dying every day? Or is it just here where he blesses those
who believe. And millions of innocent children suffer and die.

Again, I am happy you are comfortable, happy and at peace with your
faith. However I read and think beyond my life here in this blessed
country. To me… it just doesn’t add up.

Is god pleased that millions suffer and die miserable deaths but they
believe God is with them as they suffer for some kind of weird comfort?

From what I was nearly forced to listen to from a child to my teenage
years now to me… just doesn’t compute. Reading about the history
of the Vatican, the Popes, the sickening hypocrisy, the scandals and
the corruption it makes me amazed it still has a devout following.
But, some folks just won’t use their brains, read, question because they
are locked into what they hear every Sunday and their bible.

At least Martin Luther broke off and started the Protestant Church
but now preaches pretty much the same.

I also believe in our Constitution and the Founding Fathers were
wanting to keep religion out of our politics but today these mega
churches, and smaller ones, have become the biggest campaign
contributors while so many here go hungry everyday against
what Jesus taught and our Founding Fathers wanted.

I believe religion is out of control in this country and around the
world. It's ok to believe what you believe if it brings you peace
and comfort. Others may believe different.

 

[wmilo]

Kim, you're right about Jesus being taken to Egypt. Luke 2:4 says that Joseph and Mary went from Nazareth to Bethlehem for the census. While they were there, Jesus was born. Matthew 2:9-23 recounts how Joseph took Mary and Jesus to Egypt until Herod's death, at which time they returned to Nazareth. Personally, I'm not sure this would make him an immigrant, but I guess it would make him a refugee.

Al, your anger at hypocrisy and dishonesty and mistreatment seems to me (if I may say so) to be a Godly attitude. Jesus condemned hypocrisy, and God calls us to be honest in our words and dealings, and to help those in need.

In Psalm 94. the writer asks, "How long, O LORD? How long will the wicked be allowed to gloat? How long will they speak with arrogance? How long will these evil people boast? They crush your people, LORD, hurting those you claim as your own. They kill widows and foreigners and murder orphans. 'The LORD isn’t looking,” they say, and besides, the God of Israel doesn’t care.' "

It can be hard to trust God when we don't understand why things are the way they are. It is fine to ask "why". Don't give up on what you learned in your youth.

 

[Clearwater AL]

As I wrote previously…

Kim are you saying Joseph, Mary and Jesus rode on a donkey 450 miles
from Bethlehem to Egypt then back? Just another Bible story for anyone
who wants to believe it word for word... regardless I guess

All the stories from old history are hear say... fallible human beings
speaking mouth to ear, mouth to ear, and on, even within the Apostles
and some of their differing versions.

(The Army conducted a test… 20 men were lined up and the first was
told to accurately pass this message to the next and down the line…
“The Germans are advancing on the west flank” The 20th replied…
“Germans are dancing on a wet plank.’)

People can quote scripture, the bible… but the dying and misery still
goes on. But they believe God is with them as they suffer for some
kind of weird comfort? Is the reward they’ll go to heaven… if they
are Christian?

“It is fine to ask "why". Don't give up on what you learned in your youth.”

“Don’t give up on what you learned in your youth”? What? What was
forced on me in my youth… and still pushed on kids today.

For the better, my opinion, Millennials, Gen X, and older (me) aren’t
buying the supposed Bible based on hearsay being the absolute
Word of God and do not believe they, me, are going to hell if we
don’t go to church every Sunday and Wednesday night like many now

Wmilo and others again, if your faith brings you comfort, peace and
happiness I accept that. Not you, but others trying sell me back to the
flock. I believe in God, I live a good life, I give to others, I take care
of stray cats, I’ll help anyone who needs help if I can. Supposedly I’m
going to hell or will never see heaven for eternity from what I heard
in my youth. We'll all see what happens when our day comes.

PS. Just curious. I’d like to see some young believing couple with a child
get a mule, pick out one of the many walking trails in this country, load up
up their belongings on the mule, wear sandals, dress in the clothing of that
time, pack food for them and the mule then walk 450 miles and back.
Oh yea... and no cell phone.

Not saying it couldn't be done.

 

[KimT]

Al, you can see it at our own border. Women with children coming from central America in fear for their lives.

You don't need to believe in the Bible stories.

 

[Clearwater AL]

*Kim, they are not wearing sandals, walking with a mule with their
belongings on its back. They are taking buses, trains and other
vehicles. If you notice the videos and pictures many of them
are overweight, clean clothes, expensive foot wear, cell phones
and jewelry, watches. If you want to believe Jesus was an
immigrant I have no problem with what you believe.

Years ago I read “A Course in Miracles” and followed it.

The principal purpose of A Course in Miracles is to “restore to one’s
awareness to the power of one’s mind to choose.

The arguments against certain Christianity includes the suppositions
that it is to superstition, homophobia, transphobia, bigotry, pontification,
pompous, hearsay and against women's rights. How true.

Many back then many claimed the Course was against religion.

No, just calling out certain Christian organized churches saying…

“Nothing real can be threatened… nothing unreal exists, herein lies
the peace of God.”

I also read the books of Scott Peck… “The Road Less Traveled” and
his following book “Beyond The Road Less Traveled. He too got
the criticism of being anti church because he leaned to spiritualism
over organized religion.


The “religion” of Islam demands absolute Blind Faith… everyday we
live with the danger of that. They are not allowed to have an open
mind or read anything but the Quran.

 

[Tomswife]

Al. If you are not familiar with Paul Salopek's walk around the earth, you will find it fascinating and good reading. Paul Salopek had been walking around the globe for many years now. You can learn more via national geographic.

"Slow Down, Find Humanity​

Paul Salopek’s 24,000-mile odyssey is a decade-long experiment in slow journalism. Moving at the beat of his footsteps, Paul is walking the pathways of the first humans who migrated out of Africa in the Stone Age and made the Earth ours. Along the way he is covering the major stories of our time—from climate change to technological innovation, from mass migration to cultural survival—by giving voice to the people who inhabit them every day. His words, as well as his photographs, video, and audio, create a global record of human life at the start of a new millennium as told by villagers, nomads, traders, farmers, soldiers, and artists who rarely make the news. In this way, if we choose to slow down and observe carefully, we also can rediscover our world."

The story in the New Testament of the flight to Egypt does not say how long it took them or how many years they remained. The Holy Family may have been assisted by others along the way...many donkeys. The Bible is a book of faith and it is about how we discover God acting in our lives.

It is good that you are exploring the mystery of life. That is what Paul Salopek is also doing on his very very long walk.

Hugs. And Peace.

 

[Clearwater AL]

The estimated net worth of our TV evangelists… wonder what God
and Jesus thinks about this.

Joyce Miller - $8 million dollars
Billy Graham – (diseased) - $25 million dollars
Creflo Dollar - $27 million dollars
Juanita Bynum - $10 million dollars
Benny Hinn - $42 million dollars
Pat Robertson - $100 million dollars
Bishop Jakes - $150 million dollars
Kenneth Copeland - $ 760 million dollars
Jimmy Swaggert - $10 million dollars
Paula White - $5 million dollars
Jamal Bryant - $20 million dollars
John Hagee - $5 million dollars


Grand total for all… $1.2 billion dollars. Yes, religion is out of
control in this country. We cannot criticize other religions in other
countries. Do they pay taxes?

So much for the poor and hungry. And the money keeps pouring in.
but not to them.

Super Bowl… CNN has an article "The truth behind the ‘He Gets Us”
two ads that will be run at $7 million each. It’s also on another print
site. The organization behind this farce has $100 million dollars in
other ads and political campaign contributions.

The truth behind the 'He Gets Us' ads for Jesus airing during the Super Bowl

"He Gets Us," a Christian outreach campaign, has spent millions in advertising and on Sunday will debut two new commercials during the Super Bowl. The campaign's murky motivations have some Christians feeling confused and betrayed.

www.cnn.com

 

[Tomswife]

Paul Salopek is a journalist. He is not the head of a religious institution. I don't even know what his religious affiliation is, if he has any.
He has done so much good on his walk.
I dont know why you lumped him into a list of televangelists.
Whatever. Peace.

 

[wmilo]

Hi, Al.
You said, "I believe in God, I live a good life, I give to others, I take care of stray cats, I’ll help anyone who needs help if I can." Great; thank you.

You also said, "We'll all see what happens when our day comes." True. I believe all the "whys" will be answered then.

As far as traveling to Egypt on a donkey, we do know that there was significant commerce and travel between Egypt and the Middle East in those times. Genesis 42-46 recounts multiple trips between Canaan and Egypt by Jacob's sons, Joseph himself, and Jacob.

Clearly religion is a hot button for you. I don't think anyone is arguing that suffering does not exist or that there are not self-serving grifters posing as pastors.

You have been through too much in your life for me to claim that I understand you, but I think I understand some of your feelings about why people suffer, the hypocrisy of some religious leaders, and the seeming unfairness of some of what is taught as "doctrine". I certainly do not mean to condemn or criticize you, but only to exchange ideas in a gentle and respectful way.

 

[Clearwater AL]

Tomswife, Yea, I've had second thoughts about that. He does good. I removed it from the list.
At least some wealthy people do good. I just wish more on my list would do more instead
of their campaigns in the name of Jesus for money.

Wmilo, I do try and do it in a gentle and respectful way. I've held a lot back. But I try to
present the truth and facts and yes some of my opinion.... everybody has one, like everyone
has one brain.

Thanks for the replies... and peace.

 

[KimT]

We all have tremendous burdens to carry. I'll just say I don't carry mine alone.

 

[AlDowns]

Excellent replies to Clearwater Al.

To Al from Al,

I have been a Believer since the age of 12. I have every confidence in my faith in the Godhead and the evidences of their providence in my life as an individual, as the leader in our home, and every setting I have found myself.
Have I had seasons of questioning and introspection. Of course, I am human and a sinner saved God’s wonderful grace. The results of that questioning produced a maturing of the fruits of the Spirit provided to us.
God is so good.
Yes, ALS is not the journey that any of us chose. But neither did Joseph, Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Paul, and so many other Christians.
Yes, there are so many examples of suffering in our present world, but God has a plan that grants all of us a hope for a far better eternal future. We can not let our current difficulties and the trauma suffered worldwide dissuade our faith. Instead we lift them up in prayer knowing that God has a plan.
Al, if you posted your comment to hear from others about why we hold onto our faith in this journey, then y ou have had a couple good replies. I trust that as you continue your personal search that you will also find the joy and peace only given through our faith I.n the finished work of Jesus and the comfort given through a spirit-filled daily life.

Sincerely praying for you Clearwater Al.

 

[AlDowns]

Yes God’s Grace is so very sufficient. That is the decal I recently put on one of my wheelchair fenders.
And that certainly preaches clearly.

 

[Clearwater AL]

Al, I'm fine with you in your faith and whatever you believe. Peace.