AKV9 from Silverman Lab/Northwestern offers hope.

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I'm guessing you've built up a lot of this knowledge from being around so long.. do you know of any resources to learn about the sort of procedural side of things? I can read studies all day but I've found it difficult to find out details about all that goes into it before the study is published
 
Yes, I have also helped bring drugs and devices to market, professionally.

Here is one resource -- you can find many others.
 
Stats and Lisa,

Good info - thank you for this. Lisa, you make a great point about the best strategy when dealing with the FDA. I think most in our community would agree that we deserve special treatment; and, after safety in trials is established, it should be up to pharma, doctors, and patients to determine what drugs they produce and take - simultaneous to Phase 3s and 4s. Given the heterogeneity of our disease, it's demonstrably very difficult to have clear outcomes from broad sample sets.
 
Thank you! Clicking through the links in your link has been very helpful so far. A great starting point for further research as well.

I agree North Georgia - I'm a statistician (have not worked anywhere related to medicine) and I have been shocked that the standards are still so stringent for guaranteed-quickly-fatal diseases, not even just ALS. I can obviously appreciate that they want to protect patients as much as possible, but for meds that show *possible* but inconclusive benefit without many negative effects, they move with a surprising amount of reticence
 
It's that "not many negative effects" thing that's the joker in the deck.

Lithium, which PALS were clamoring for after early trials, subsequently proved no more effective than placebo, with more adverse events in ALS than in psychiatric disorders. Multiple trials were stopped early due to a negative risk/benefit ratio.

Years later, the FDA approved diaphragm pacing in the "what harm can it do" spirit, but subsequently it more often accelerated than slowed ALS progression.

There are other examples. Anything strong enough to help motor neurons has a potential down side. And the R drugs appear to have pretty narrow time windows/patient profiles for optimal efficacy, meaning that for some people the risks and logistics may not justify use, whether reimbursable or not.

We frequently discuss approaches here that have stronger evidence of safety and efficacy than any ALS drug on the market. From BiPAP to feeding tubes (if what you put in the tube isn't junk), to social interaction and the right mobility device(s), the curve of this disease is being bent and will continue to be.

Many other fatal illnesses/injuries are actually more heterogeneously expressed than is ALS. But uncertain recruitment, the vagaries of the FRS, and a hostile reception to biopharmas who cannot provide (for many good reasons) early access, are not strong incentives to jump in the pool.

Best,
Laurie
 
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Stats and Laurie,

Good stuff. Despite setbacks in the past, (some of which Laurie references), the FDA's efficacy mandate is too broad and carries too much power -imo. Laurie, by "the R drugs' window for optimum efficacy" I think you mean the importance of starting the drugs as early on from disease onset as possible ? This is a point of universal agreement. The various setbacks the FDA has had are important for learning, etc but doesn't justify not giving ALS / terminal patients the option of trying a hail Mary / new drug (vs certain death) and the umpteen years it still takes to approve new drugs for fatal illnesses. Should a new drug carry the risk of failing to work or even toxicity it still outweighs the risk of certain death - that we all face.

Seems to me if the FDA would approve the use of drugs that carry a good safety profile (for patients with ALS and terminal illnesses), and restructure the efficacy mandate (or cut it out altogether as was the case originally), that it would create a lower cost / faster access market environment -- thus a lot more incentive for biopharmas.
 
Again, you're begging the question of that "good safety profile."

The length and Ns in early ALS trials cannot provide that assurance. And sure, drugs in other diseases have been withdrawn years later. This isn't a problem unique to ALS. But suggesting that PALS deserve jettisoning requirements still in place for cancer and AIDS patients, to name a few, doesn't make sense to me.

A lot of drugs and biologicals, from the super-pricey SMA treatments to chemo, carry great risks and are approved anyway. But FDA approval sets the reimbursement stage and if you require payors to fund treatments that have not established efficacy greater than placebo or standard care, that will only increase costs and constrain outcomes for everyone.

And why would biopharmas spend millions to prove safety and efficacy if they don't have to? And even if they wanted to differentiate themselves, how long would it take them to recruit PALS if everyone is taking the "available now" assortment?

There are ways to shorten trials, as the Healey Platform seeks to do, and the community should absolutely be discussing these, but abandoning endpoints is kind of the baby/bathwater.
 
Good points all. I agree with you on most of your points but remain convinced that the current rather arbitrary and very lengthy process through which the FDA determines safety and efficacy needs to be improved on. We seem to have structural flaws in the process and need to incentivize biopharma, etc as much as possible. I'm not familiar with the requirements for AIDS and cancer - but believe PALS should be shown special latitude when it comes to available treatments.
 
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...an example of one Physicians / PALS opinion re Nurown - that can likely be the case with other drugs over time.

Thoughts ?
 
I'll have to read more up on the lithium.

I don't know exactly what I'd like to change, but in my world there would have been even faster access to tofersen & relyvrio, and possibly some sort of access to nurown for specific subgroups.

Or some sort of expedited,subsidized, larger phase 3 or 4 trials. Though that comes down to much more than just policy (funding, finding people to actually carry it out etc). To your point of being different from cancer or aids - I don't want ALS to be treated special per se. Whatever changes are made should apply to any diseases that meet certain criteria, whatever they may be.

Something about it is just shocking hearing the NU9 team saying "well we need to find the money to fund our trials before we can get them started", I really wish that wasn't an issue. Not to start debating about socialism or whatever, but the government already does throw so much money at research, it'd be nice if there were specific programs for funding urgently-needed or particularly promising trials (no idea what kind of criteria would need to be met to show "promise")
 
Stats, I agree with your line of thinking. Nurown is a good example because it's basically a stem cell therapy (with proprietary growth factors). Stem cell therapies have little risk as I understand it but have not proven to be very effective with ALS in general - until Nurown engineered these growth factors that apparently really make a difference in terms of neuron growth, etc. Treatments that have a long history of safety such as Stem Cells, Interleukin2, etc could seemingly be justified as a subgroup (or off label use) that PALS have access to.

I've also been shocked about the pace of progress with some of the promising drugs including NU9, Coya's T regs, some Johns Hopkins treatments, etc. Coya has had this T Reg drug for several years apparently.

Have you read any of the recent laws that have been passed ? I have not but need to -- I'd like to better understand the new Compassionate care, etc laws and see what legislators have been involved. Seems like there needs to be new legislation to address these issues.
 
Interesting to read from some of you very knowledgeable posters.

I am really curious about something like Coya 302.

Does anyone have more details than what I can find on news sites?

Was the first trial just 4 people and their ALSFRS scores were almost unchanged after 24 weeks? Would these people have been allowed to continue on the drug after the 24 weeks? If so, does anyone know anything about how they are doing?

I have followed this disease for 20 years and the T reg drugs seem about as optimistic as anything I have seen. Hopefully I am not being fooled. The slow pace is maddening though.
 
Nurown is a confusing one because overall the data didn't look great, but I've seen (several times) supposed breakdowns of certain subgroups of patients where it seemed to make a big difference. I've never been able to find this data myself, though. Just slideshows summarizing it (which I don't like given my profession ;))

I'm not aware of anything other than the Right to Try Act which isn't even that new now... time flies...

It's not too complicated of a law (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7416898/) but as I understand it, hasn't actually done very much to get drugs in patients hands. Insurances won't pay for unapproved drugs and they're more often than not prohibitively expensive - if the drug company is willing to give it out under compassionate use in the first place
 
Stats Guy,

Thanks for this.

At a brief scan it looks like the law is on the right track but has too much criteria or roadblocks to make it actionable on a large scale basis. There may need to be a change in the FDA's mandate to actually free up biopharma ( make it cheaper to bring to market) and hold insurance companies accountable for covering certain drugs.
I've got to travel to the clinic today for my 3 month checkup tomorrow - will dig into this law when I have more time in a day or so.

I have access to two US Senators" offices and am considering working up a petition for changes in the law ---- but first need to construct the right language, etc.

Are you a statistician by trade ? I have an MBA with a minor in statistics.

Thank you
 
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