Ghost003
New member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2016
- Messages
- 1
- Reason
- Learn about ALS
- Country
- AUT
- State
- AUT
- City
- Vienna
Hello folks,
I actually wanted to post this in BFS-forums but they seem not to accept.any new members which is a shame. However, I am actually a long-term twitcher with bodywide twitches starting in 2013/14 / Initial clean EMG. 4 monthes ago I noticed my tongue started to get twitches and it got me worried again - got cleared by several neurologists telling me I had nothing to worry and it's all part of the benign condition (Clean physical).
But I am still worried over a rather technical concern: Twitch size / felt twitch size.
I sometimes get tiny tiny millimeter twitches which are so small I can barely feel. This is on BFS generally also said to be normal. However I took a closer look: (do not read if you are anxious)
-There are twitches of single muscle fibres which are called Fibrillations.
- A twitch resulting from a *single motor unit* which is a contraction of many muscle fibres is a fasciculation
A) From different sources I researched that the hemispherical radius of a concentrical EMG-needle is about 1 mm, therefore a 2 mm diameter. Within this pick up range it is said that there are some 100 muscle fibres but because motor units are cross sected throughout the muscle it is said that within that range only 4 - 6 muscle fibres of a single motor unit are present.
- Single Motor units are said to have different innervation ratios which is the number of muscle fibres they connect to. The ratio depends on the locality of the muscle and the fibre-type and can roughly range from 10 - 2000. (Some say small motor units can have as few as 1 - 3, some say they usually have at least 100, the statements are somewhat contradictory) - However,
I conclude:
If A) is true then
4 - 6 fibres ...... 2 mm so, let's say
5 fibres - 2 mm, therefore
2,5 fibres - 1 mm
5 - 2 mm (precise muscles)
10 - 4 mm
100 - 40 mm (4 cm) (calf muscle, etc.)
500 - 200 mm (20 cm)
1000 - 400 mm (40 cm)
So what if you feel ot have a twitch that is smaller than the range of motor units in a specific location. For example, a tiny tiny 0,4 mm twitch in the tongue or a 3 mm -sized twitch on the calf-muscle?
Does it have to be assumed that those must be fibrillations, despite them being said cannot be felt? I unfortunately think I raised a big question for many twitchers!
Any academics around?
I actually wanted to post this in BFS-forums but they seem not to accept.any new members which is a shame. However, I am actually a long-term twitcher with bodywide twitches starting in 2013/14 / Initial clean EMG. 4 monthes ago I noticed my tongue started to get twitches and it got me worried again - got cleared by several neurologists telling me I had nothing to worry and it's all part of the benign condition (Clean physical).
But I am still worried over a rather technical concern: Twitch size / felt twitch size.
I sometimes get tiny tiny millimeter twitches which are so small I can barely feel. This is on BFS generally also said to be normal. However I took a closer look: (do not read if you are anxious)
-There are twitches of single muscle fibres which are called Fibrillations.
- A twitch resulting from a *single motor unit* which is a contraction of many muscle fibres is a fasciculation
A) From different sources I researched that the hemispherical radius of a concentrical EMG-needle is about 1 mm, therefore a 2 mm diameter. Within this pick up range it is said that there are some 100 muscle fibres but because motor units are cross sected throughout the muscle it is said that within that range only 4 - 6 muscle fibres of a single motor unit are present.
- Single Motor units are said to have different innervation ratios which is the number of muscle fibres they connect to. The ratio depends on the locality of the muscle and the fibre-type and can roughly range from 10 - 2000. (Some say small motor units can have as few as 1 - 3, some say they usually have at least 100, the statements are somewhat contradictory) - However,
I conclude:
If A) is true then
4 - 6 fibres ...... 2 mm so, let's say
5 fibres - 2 mm, therefore
2,5 fibres - 1 mm
5 - 2 mm (precise muscles)
10 - 4 mm
100 - 40 mm (4 cm) (calf muscle, etc.)
500 - 200 mm (20 cm)
1000 - 400 mm (40 cm)
So what if you feel ot have a twitch that is smaller than the range of motor units in a specific location. For example, a tiny tiny 0,4 mm twitch in the tongue or a 3 mm -sized twitch on the calf-muscle?
Does it have to be assumed that those must be fibrillations, despite them being said cannot be felt? I unfortunately think I raised a big question for many twitchers!
Any academics around?
