Is Weekness a UMN or LMN?

[rayray123]

THX!

Trying to figure out if weekness would be picked up on emg. Most articles have weekness listed in BOTH LMN & UMN

 

[olly]

hi .
umn weakness is caused by spasms and would show up on a physical exam as clinical weakness ,this is typical in pls............but it does not lead to complete paralysis as seen in als ,also umn desease does not show up on an emg.
lmn weakness is seen on a emg and obviously the physical exam.

 

[rayray123]

Thx olly

If I cant move a pinky toe would that be UMN or LMN weekness?

Whats the difference between UMN weekness & LMN weekness?

Many thanks,

 

[halfin]

One problem with amateurs trying to interpret symptoms is that doctors look for patterns that point to a disease. Just because disease X can cause symptom Y, and you have symptom Y, that doesn't necessarily mean that you could have disease X. That disease is likely to produce a pattern of symptoms which a doctor would look for. When you google symptom Y you may be led to disease X but it is really a false alarm.

UMN problems can produce weakness, but it is generally mild and not complete. Also I think it tends to be over a larger area. But you will not have just weakness, you will have stiffness, loss of coordination, spasticity, strong reflexes, and other symptoms that form a pattern. This is what the doctor will look for.

LMN problems do produce weakness and can be in a specific area. Sometimes it could just be a problem with that one nerve, like inflammation, a disk problem where it leaves the spine, or compression somewhere along the path. ALS affecting the LMNs will cause weakness, and eventually atrophy (shrinkage of the muscle). But that should show up on the EMG. ALS is a nerve disease and causes some of the nerve cells to die while others grow to take their place. This produces a specific pattern on the EMG that tends to point to ALS (although other diseases can also cause these EMG problems). If your EMG is OK while the muscle is weak or paralyzed, that would not be consistent with ALS.

 

[hopingforcure]

One problem with amateurs trying to interpret symptoms is that doctors look for patterns that point to a disease. Just because disease X can cause symptom Y, and you have symptom Y, that doesn't necessarily mean that you could have disease X. That disease is likely to produce a pattern of symptoms which a doctor would look for. When you google symptom Y you may be led to disease X but it is really a false alarm.

UMN problems can produce weakness, but it is generally mild and not complete. Also I think it tends to be over a larger area. But you will not have just weakness, you will have stiffness, loss of coordination, spasticity, strong reflexes, and other symptoms that form a pattern. This is what the doctor will look for.

LMN problems do produce weakness and can be in a specific area. Sometimes it could just be a problem with that one nerve, like inflammation, a disk problem where it leaves the spine, or compression somewhere along the path. ALS affecting the LMNs will cause weakness, and eventually atrophy (shrinkage of the muscle). But that should show up on the EMG. ALS is a nerve disease and causes some of the nerve cells to die while others grow to take their place. This produces a specific pattern on the EMG that tends to point to ALS (although other diseases can also cause these EMG problems). If your EMG is OK while the muscle is weak or paralyzed, that would not be consistent with ALS.

Hal
Great explanation. UMN symptoms explanation/

 

[AndyDJX]

"One problem with amateurs trying to interpret symptoms is that doctors look for patterns that point to a disease. Just because disease X can cause symptom Y, and you have symptom Y, that doesn't necessarily mean that you could have disease X."

On point again, Hal!

 

[limegreenphysicist]

Rayray,

My crazy whirlwind started with not being able to move my pinky toe and its neighbor And I don't have ALS..two EMGs and 5 sticks in my foot near that toe (bc I asked for him to do it) and it was clean..I have also read one other girl who has a weak toe and she had clean emg too...do you have any other symptoms beside a weak toe..oh I remember searching the internet for numb toe at the start of my symptoms

kelly

 

[rayray123]

Hi Everyone,

Thx again for all your support,

(((Kelly)))? Did you ever regain movement of the pinky toe & what did the nuero say?
Im curious to know. My pinky toe, all of a sudden is just drooped down & I CAN NOT move it Although I used to. The nuero doesnt know why?

Thx for sharing,

 

[limegreenphysicist]

I answered your questions in message but I will reiterate here as well..Your emg was normal so go enjoy life especially if thats your only symptom. Like I said to you not all things can be explained by medical science because it is a practice. So take my advice and stay off the forum girlie..go live!