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perplexed

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New from our doctor from the neuro who STILL hasn't called back since the EMG Jan. 16th:

The neuro told our family doctor that despite the clean single-fiber EMG, she is "reasonably convinced" this is ALS given clinical symptoms of saliva and swallowing difficulties.

It is hard as she hasn't told us this herself, hasn't said why, in the face of most evidence that clean EMGs, no weakness, no atrophy, point at least to PLS currently, she is making this statement.

Any reactions from you all?

Erica/perplexed
 
Erica,

Is this nuero and ALS specialist or nueromuscular specialist? Did he have all the MG blood panels?
 
What? How can that be? I don't even know what to say. If that neuro is not an expert of course get to one right away (master of the obvious here). You must be frightened; but it doesn't seem as if all the other stuff has been explored....keep your head up.

Lydia
 
Erica, did your Neurologist do the Babinski and Hoffman and Jaw reflex exams?

What is the extent of the single fiber EMG?
 
Did they even consider Parkinson's? Parkinson's has swallowing and saliva issues; usually later in disease but can happen earlier. I have sent you a pm with link to an easy to read document on swallowing and PD.
 
Responding

Hi everyone:
Thanks for getting back so quickly. I'll try to answer in order.
The neuro is the head of the Montreal Neurological Institute - has seen a lot of ALS
Apparently, the second clean single-fiber EMG ruled out MG (along with no elevated blood titre levels and no dropped eye symptoms)
Jules, what do you mean "what is the extent of the EMG?" And yes, he had a normal Babinski.

No one so far has mentioned Parkinsons.

My confusion stems from the fact that despite what the neuro told me about 30% of ALS presenting like my husband - i.e. very localized swallowing problems, no muscle weakness or atrophy,
the rest of my research AND two other neurologists at the MNI indicate that clean EMGs tend to rule out ALS, at least currently. At least it would seem to point to PLS with a possibility of turning into ALS.

But at the outset, the neuro told us that this was one of three options: MG, ALS, or a myopathy. She never mentioned PLS.

It is as though she has secret knowledge of something that tells her this.

We'll at least have more information as to why she said this, on Thursday.

But normal EMGS, Babinski, etc - clearly neuromuscular, but?

Thanks for reading and responding. I'm in a bit of shock and denial. I have to go pick up our nine-year-old from school soon and take her to ballet. She's quite anxious as Daddy is sick clearly.

My husband's weight, after initial loss, is stable. Mine on the other hand, is shrinking out of stress. But whatever happens, you deal with it.

Any responses are appreciated. You all are a lifeline.
Erice/perplexed
 
Erica ... I know how worried this must make you, but it seems to me you should be hearing this from the neuro, not second-hand from your primary physician.

The neuro must have sent a report to the referring physician. See if you can get a copy of it. Will you be seeing the neuro Thursday? Ask what your next steps should be. If the neuro is willing to make a diagnosed of ALS, then he/she needs to start treating your husband for it ... Rilutek,etc.. monitoring his lung capacity, etc. I think this is a situation where you need to be pro-active.

In any case, keep your hopes up ... way up! There are just too many unknowns here.
 
hi erica.
maybe she could be thinking he has bulbar umn at the moment that has not spread anywere else but could later turn into als.
i really hope this is not the case.
having said that till more definate signs show up she should not have mentioned it at this stage.
you mentioned parkinsons,in another post of yours about sleep meds i answered you mentioned he has a tremor now.
did you mention this to the neuro?
is it a action tremor or when the limb is at rest?
you should ask for a second opinion from als specialist and get the possibility of parkinsons evaluated.
 
Erica,

I think I asked this before, and don't know the answer, was an EMG done of his epiglottis itself?

Has he had a "coned down" MRI of just his brain stem. If he has not, this is something that is needed! and he needs to go to a doctor that realizes it is needed (if you get what I mean). A brain MRI is not specific enough to look at a weakness that is only coming from the bulbar cranial nerve area.

I really feel for you, the frustration and fears combined. Please try not to take this too much to heart until he sees another specialist in the neuro-,muscular field. Get another opinion. Also, the very fact alone that this doctor herself couldn't manage to have the conversation with you is just not right.

I do not want to add to your fears, but I also understand that at this point you want answers too. I had an atypical onset of bulbar palsy. The very first test that pointed toward MND was an EMG of my vocal cord muscles themselves, and it was abnormal, showing a typical pattern for ALS. BUT six months later, an EMG was performed on my limbs and my tongue, and these came back normal. During this time period I did have clinical weakness in my throat, mouth, tongue, soft palate, lips and face including eye closure. Most notably the 9th, 10th and 7th nerves. This was weakness discovered by my doctors and speech pathologists, some of which I was aware of, some not so much. My neurologist expressed surprise not only to me, but to my laryngologist that my tongue EMG was normal, because upon her exam she noted weakness and atrophy. (My other doctor told me that she'd said to her that she was "shocked") About 6 months after this EMG, another one was done of my tongue, and it did show problems by then.

I am wondering if the reason the neurologist said this to his GP, is because, she has seen other atypical patients who continued to progress,( like I did), and, more importantly, also does not see signs that would point to any other disease. Because, even though I feel I'm atypical, and am, to a degree, when I asked about other tests, muscle biopsy, lumbar puncture, etc, I was told that nothing that I describe, or my doctors note upon exam point to something that these tests would be helpful for.

I want to echo others that asked, and that is, have his doctors been notified of his hand tremor? IF its not from medication, it might be significant enough to steer them in another direction, or not.

The questions are was she thorough enough, and is she qualified enough....

I'm so sorry you did not get good news, and the way you did learn it was not what you were expecting.

((hugs))
 
So up and down

Thank you all for your quick replies.
Beth, I didn't call the neuro as I just noticed the faint hand tremor on Monday and I knew she wouldn't call back regardless. Now we'll be seeing her Thursday in any case and will of course draw her attn to it.

Your points are good ones - I don't know what the muscle and nerve biopsies indicate or rule out and had planned to ask exactly that. There is a caffeine biopsy test that shoots caffeine into the muscle - will ask about that and about the coned-down MRI.

He had an EMG of the tongue but not the epiglottis - will ask about that.

I also have questions about Pseudo Bulbar Palsy (vs. Progressive Bulbar Palsy) and PLS.

People do come to the MNI from all over North America - that is not of course to say that the doctors don't err. I would be curious also to know how many instances, anecdotal or empirical, there are of ALS being diagnosed and then retracted to PLS.

Am not just Perplexed now - in shock, denial, you name it!
But still hoping. And whatever it is, I'll deal with it for my nine-year-old daughter.
All the best, you all,
Erica
 
Answering Olly

Hi Olly,
I don't know how to answer your question about the tremor being in action or at rest; his right hand (not left) trembles ever so slightly when he holds it stretched out in front of him.
Cheers,
E
 
Erica, I did respond to your question over on the PBP forum. About ALS diagnosis being reversed to PLS, I think usually it is the opposite of that.

Seeing as it is his epiglottis that is the weakest and causing the majority of his functional problems right now, if an emg was not done there, I'd ask if there is a facility that will do it.

Please know that as awful as this all is, that you won't have to be alone in this, and regardless of if this neuro was correct or not, your family will find ways to cope. Its a shock, but you will find the strength and courage.
 
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