Vans - New or Used

[KimT]

I've been shopping vans. Various people drive me around so I want something 2014 or later and I need navigation. I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Toyota Sienna with the VMi automatic, in floor. Fred is 6'4" and I'm a Honda or Toyota gal.

I've been working with Mobility Works and new rigs in the trim I want sell for $70,000!!!! Nearly half of that is the conversion.

I saw some on e-Bay that looked too good to be true. They are in other States and I'm reluctant to buy something without driving it. I did see that there were no recorded accidents on the ones I looked at but I'm really scared about buying used.

I'd like to know what all of you are doing for vans. I've pretty much allocated the proceeds of the sale of my old condo ($130,000) to a van, remodel of two bathrooms, and a very nice bed setup with ceiling tracks throughout the master suite.

The most I've ever spent on a vehicle was $30,000 for my RAV4 and it was loaded. This is a big decision so I'd appreciate all the feedback I can get. Fred is not good dealing with cars nor does he love driving so he offers no opinion.

 

[swalker]

I am a fan of used cars.

New cars cost more to license (in my state, a LOT more) and depreciate fast.

I think a quality vehicle should have a life expectancy of over 200,000 miles with proper care and maintenance. There is more maintenance expense with them once they hit 100,000 miles, but I find that is still cheaper than buying new.

So, my ideal car has less than 100,000 miles on it and is about 6 to 8 years old.

In February 2015 we bought a used, full-sized 2004 conversion van. It had 82,000 miles on it. It was not a thing of beauty, but from a distance looks pretty good. Virtually all of the cosmetic shortcomings could be fixed for about $2,000. Mechanically, it was in good condition, with a few deferred maintenance items.

It came with a Braun Vangater II lift, which has been a bit problematic, but I have been able to download the service manuals and figure out what was causing issues.

Overall, this has worked very well for us, in large part because I am still able to transfer. We paid $11,000 for the van and have put about $2,000 into it since. We have driven it about 50,000 miles in the last 2 years.

With this van, the wheelchair rides where the middle row of seats would go. While I could ride in the wheelchair (there is a wheelchair-specific seatbelt there), I chose not to. I would not be able to see out of the van.

As transfers become more difficult, we have been looking at a replacement. If I were to get a minivan, I would probably opt for the Sienna with a VMI 360 conversion (like Fred, I am tall).

But, instead of a minivan, we are looking at a Mercedes Sprinter or a Ford Transit. My reason for doing so is that I believe vehicles with fewer modifications are more reliable and durable.

With a minivan, the floor must be lowered and a suspension lift added (in addition to the wheelchair ramp). Minivans also ride low to the ground and I have heard of problems with them going over speedbumps, etc.

With the Sprinter and Transit, the vehicle is not modified much. A lift is installed, the passenger seat is removed, and an EZ Lock is installed.

Sprinters recently started becoming available in four-wheel drive, which is important to us. Unfortunately, the diesel ones (which is all that I have found available with the four-wheel drive) have a reputation for needing very expensive maintenance after 100,000 miles (significant parts of the Diesel emissions system must be replaced on late-model vehicles).

The Ford Transits are not available in four-wheel drive.

So, we don't know what we are going to do. One thing for sure is that we are not going to spend $70,000. We will make the necessary compromises to buy a used one, preferably already converted for wheelchair use.

Steve

 

[JimInVA]

I'd had a 2003 Honda Odyssey when Darcey finally moved to a power wheel chair (PWC). She was still able to stand and (with help) pivot. So I'd move her PWC up to the front passenger door and help her stand and pivot onto the front seat. Once I had her in place, I'd seatbelt her, close the door and then move the PWC to the back of the car. I purchased two ramps that were long enough to allow me a reasonable angle for putting the PWC into the rear of the van. It was a lot of work. The ramps were heavy... even though they folded nicely. The PWC's rear headrest had to be removed and the chair leaned back for it to fit into the back of the van (which also had its rear seats removed. All in all, it was an absolute pain in the donkey. When Darcey's legs gave out during one of these transfers in late 2013, I knew we had to make some serious changes.

We're now into January of 2014. I've done about as much research as I could online and decided that we needed to have a van that allowed Darcey's chair (with her aboard) to drive into the van and park in the front passenger area. I had decided on the BraunAbility line of conversion and had narrowed my choice to either another Odyssey or Toyota's van. After test driving the new 2014 versions of both, the Odyssey continued to be the clear favorite for me. I had one thing yet to do before special ordering a $75,000 Odyssey conversion van... and that was to actually drive Darcey (and her PWC) into one. And so I began to search for someone who might have one that we could drive to and see.

Sometimes the stars align, the gods smile and karma winks with glee. For in my search, I found a used 2013 Honda Odyssey conversion... EXACTLY AS I WOULD HAVE ORDERED IT... only 40 minutes away. I sent off a quick email asking if we could see it at the used van dealership first thing Monday morning. I was told that he'd hold it for my review. And that Monday morning, even after a weekend's snow, we were there. Using the old trick of moving the PWC from the back of the older van, I soon had Darcey buckled in for her test entry into the new van. I was giggling with delight at how easy it was to back her up the ramp, turn her and move her forward into the passenger area. We probably moved in and out 4 or 5 times as it was JUST SO MUCH FUN!

Having verified that she could get in and out, I inquired as to price... certain that I'd still opt for the newer model that I'd special order. As luck would have it, the van only had 450 miles on it... and was still on its 2nd tank of gas. It was in perfect condition and was fit with an extra battery (as required by the VA for conversions). And they only wanted $49,000 for it. Needless to say, I gave them a down payment that day and scheduled to come back on Friday to purchase and drive it away. We simply could not believe our good fortune. The very next week we received notice from Johns Hopkins that their neurology department had accepted Darcey for reevaluation of her [then] current diagnosis of CIDP. And now we had the van that could get us the 200+ miles we'd have to travel each way.

Honestly, I don't know how we would have survived without this van. Had we not been able to keep going into work each day (we owned our own business), I think Darcey would have long ago faded away. But it allowed us both to continue with purpose for another 2-1/2 years before moving the business (after 28 years) back into our home. I love this Odyssey and it continues to be good to us. One day, I'll pass it on to another owner... and because its a Honda, it'll still have lots of life left in it. And because these are so very expensive when new, I suspect I'll get a very fair resale value for it. I'm so glad for how this all worked out for us... just for taking time to browse and search on the internet.

Good luck!

Jim

 

[gooseberry]

Kim, the group I sold our van to, mobility express in sun city,was fabulous to work with. They are reasonably priced and provide great service. The usually have some inventory. Many times they are vans from VA patients.

 

[wshealey]

Hi Kim. We just took delivery of our van on Monday. We looked for a couple of months before we found what we wanted that fit in our budget. We ended up buying a certified pre-owned Dodge Grand Caravan from our local mobility dealer, Superior. Braun had the van at their plant doing the conversion so we bought it sight unseen but felt comfortable with their CPO inspection. It was a 2015 with less that 30,000 miles. We had the 14" conversion done since I am 6' 1". The chair, a Quantum Q6 Edge 2.0, fits in the van just fine and the transition to the driver's seat is easy with the transition base. The total cost was $42,000 with the conversion. The van doesn't have all the bells and whistles that previous vehicles had but it's sufficient and the independence that I've gained far outweighs the lack of digital dual climate control.

One thing to think about that I discovered on the way to pick up our van. The salesman came to our house in his Toyota Sienna conversion van to take us to the dealership and my wheelchair would not fit in the vehicle without me having to raise the foot pads and ride with my feet dangling. The cargo area of the Dodge was much larger and accommodated my chair much easier.

I would definitely look at going with a certified pre-owned. Someone else has paid for the depreciation and you seem to get more bang for the buck. Hope this helps.

Wes

 

[JYM - BFA]

A quick note - we just received a recall on our 2011 Sienna that applies to certain model years 2011 - 2016. The power doors can come open while driving down the highway. They'll let us know when there is a "fix".

I have read in the paper that there is also a recall for the air bags, but we haven't yet heard from Toyota about that. I can't imagine what the dealer will say when they see that it is a converted van.

Von

 

[KimT]

Hi Kim. We just took delivery of our van on Monday. We looked for a couple of months before we found what we wanted that fit in our budget. We ended up buying a certified pre-owned Dodge Grand Caravan from our local mobility dealer, Superior. Braun had the van at their plant doing the conversion so we bought it sight unseen but felt comfortable with their CPO inspection. It was a 2015 with less that 30,000 miles. We had the 14" conversion done since I am 6' 1". The chair, a Quantum Q6 Edge 2.0, fits in the van just fine and the transition to the driver's seat is easy with the transition base. The total cost was $42,000 with the conversion. The van doesn't have all the bells and whistles that previous vehicles had but it's sufficient and the independence that I've gained far outweighs the lack of digital dual climate control.

One thing to think about that I discovered on the way to pick up our van. The salesman came to our house in his Toyota Sienna conversion van to take us to the dealership and my wheelchair would not fit in the vehicle without me having to raise the foot pads and ride with my feet dangling. The cargo area of the Dodge was much larger and accommodated my chair much easier.

I would definitely look at going with a certified pre-owned. Someone else has paid for the depreciation and you seem to get more bang for the buck. Hope this helps.

Wes

Wes, The guy with mobility works strongly urged me to go with the VMI conversion over the Braun because it offers more room. I drove a loaner front wheel drive chair in and out of it with no issues. My chair will be mid wheel drive so the turning radius will be even smaller than the one I drove into the van.

They only had one or two Siennas in the trim I wanted. I wanted the navigation system. I hate that they don't post their "asking price" on the website. The salesman did send me a spreadsheet of late-model Siennas with the prices.

Today I thought about going to a Toyota dealer and a Honda dealer to look at the two. If I could get a good deal locally, maybe I could have it converted.

Still looking.

 

[4tloml]

Kim, it sounds like you know what you want, and for us, that was half the battle! In the process of our search, we learned that my 6'1" husband would need the 14" drop if we wanted a minivan (and the full-size converted weren't going to fit in our garage). That narrowed our search tremendously. I'd really wanted a Toyota Sienna, but simply couldn't find a preowned with a 14" drop and we didn't have time to wait for one to become available nor the finances to buy new.

The first stop didn't have any that would fit my PALS except a Ford Transit, and then the lift was not working (my biggest van fear--getting stuck out somewhere with a lift that won't work). It was also too tall for our garage entrance. The second place brought a Dodge Grand Caravan in from out of town, but when they got it to us the door wouldn't function completely (bottom was all crunched due to the kneeling system). We were not impressed. But they found a 2014 Dodge Grand Caravan with only 15,000 miles and only 5,000 miles on the conversion--both still under warranty. And because of our troubles, I think they offered a very fair price. This newer one also had a bigger cut-out for making the turn into the passenger space and had more room for his feet. Was all worth the first 2 stumbles.

Still trying to decide about the EZ Lock system. For now the straps are working--just a long way to reach to get that front left one on with a 14" drop. I won't be doing it ever in a skirt! Such a relief, though, to have the vehicle and freedom it provides!

Good luck to you, Kim, on your search. Hope you find just what you're looking for!

 

[CarolSue]

We just bought a 2012 Toyota Sienna with side entry power ramp 2 weeks ago. We love it. We've bought a few new cars/trucks in our days but have absolutely no problem buying late year models. Ours has under 40,000 miles and it works great. We looked at new vans too and considered converting but in all honesty I didn't want to buy a $70,000 van and have my husband left to sell it in a year or ? For me, I thought the practical thing was a late model, one owner. Ours ended up having the drivers seat that lowers, and turns around for easy transfers to the driver seat from the power chair. Now I can go completely on my own. When I'm no longer driving we will remove that seat and replace it with a regular drivers seat (came with the van) and at that time remove the passenger seat where there is a locking system already in place for riding in the power chair next to my husband. I'm a happy camper!

CarolSue

 

[chally]

I got a Dodge Grand Caravan 2014 low mileage w/ Braun conversion from mobility works $42,000 .
For some reason I like rear entry, easy to drive into we do have straps down would rather have ez- lock
No bells& whistles just a good reliable van.
I also like to sit way back so as not to pay attention to my cals driving and I can put trilogy on kick back with music and nap also I use " sea bands" for motion sickness works great.
Good luck Kim. New is not better! Just saying!

 

[KimT]

Still looking. I might buy a Sienna and have it converted by Mobility Works. I have to get to my local dealer to take advantage of a zero percent interest offer. I like using other people's money, if possible. I'll pay cash for the conversion and deduct it for tax purposes. That'll help me take some pre-tax contributions from my IRA without having to pay income tax.

Still hoping a used one comes along that has what I need (and want.)