PWC on bad sidewalks

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Gorby

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Nov 5, 2015
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114
Reason
DX UMND/PLS
Diagnosis
08/2015
Country
CA
State
BC
City
Vancouver
I have an OT coming in a few days to discuss getting a PWC or scooter from the ALS loan closet. I currently use a rollator indoors and out but would like some freedom to get to the nearest bus stop (0.5 km) or our local coffee shop (1 km).

I'm leaning towards a PWC, since scooters seem so big. For example, I could get to the coffee shop on a scooter, but I can't see how I would get inside.

My concern is whether a PWC can handle the really unfriendly sidewalks in my neighborhood (see attached pics). I would appreciate some advice.
 

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Mine will. I have an Invacare TDX-SP. Finding a driveway is another trick for road to sidewalk transfers. Your provincial health will fund a wheelchair or a scooter. Needing a wheelchair with all the bells, lights and whistles, save the funding for a wheelchair. When you get it you'll be amazed how much bigger your world is again. Don't burn up your energy getting places, use it when you get there.
Vincent
 
I have 4 wheelchairs.

The two Permobil C500 and the Permobil C350 PWCs would do most of those sidewalks. I would be a bit concerned about the grass (where the sidewalk ends in the first picture) if the ground was soft. You can get mud and snow tires (which I have) and the provide much greater flotation. With those, I could probably do that grass area even if the ground was quite soft.

All three of those wheelchairs would probably fail on the curb in your second picture (where there is not a curb cut). The reason is that the C500s have EZLock plates installed with a pin that sticks down low enough to catch on the curb. Otherwise, they could make it. The C350 has lower ground clearance and I don't think it would make the curb, but it might.

The Magic Mobility X4 wheelchair would do all those sidewalks easily. I have had it in much, much more challenging terrain. It is a real hoot to go exploring in it.

The Magic Mobility X4 wheelchair is a bit of a special chair and would not be good in tight spaces (such as on a bus or in a small coffee shop).

For general use, I prefer a front wheel drive chair for challenging terrain. The front wheels tend to pull you and the chair up and over obstacles. This includes uneven expansion joints, cracks and degraded sidewalks, dirt and grass, and even curbs without a curb cut. If you put on more aggressive wheels (I have good luck with the Permobil mud and snow tires), it is pretty amazing what the chair will do.

If you are not transporting the wheelchair in a vehicle with an automatic locking system (such as an EZLock) and thus don't need an EZLock plate on the PWC, you will have surprisingly good ground clearance and with a bit of practice will be able to tackle challenging terrain.

Good luck deciding on what the next "step" is and let us know if you have specific questions.

Steve
 
Vincent & Steve - thanks for the info.

One question: Do you know if I would be able to access transit (i.e. bus or subway) without an automatic locking system?
 
Gorby- I had a look at the Translink site for accessibility and their notes just indicate a well functioning braking system. They do have straps to lock you in if there's a concern. The drivers can do this for you if need be, but it is not considered mandatory.
 
Groby,

I ride public transportation all the time. I have used buses in my local town (Vail, Colorado) and at the Grand Canyon.

No bus or ADA van provided by the transportation departments have had an EZLock base plate. Instead, they have tiedowns that the bus driver will attach to my wheelchair (mine have specified tiedown points).

The only place I have ever been strapped in is at the Grand Canyon National Park. Since it is a federal operation, they are required to attach the tiedowns to my wheelchair. Of course, I am only attached to the wheelchair by a "posture support" device (aka seatbelt not rated for vehicle safety). For all other buses, I just rely on the wheelchair's brakes.

Public transportation has been GREAT for me. Everyone operating the buses has been super nice and helpful. Almost all the folks riding the buses have likewise been very nice and helpful. Not everyone, but almost all:).

Steve
 
Thanks for the interesting thread. I don’t yet have a pwc, but plan to be adventurous when I get one. I have some questions, mainly for Steve.

1). Can the pwc access standard public transportation buses (Rapid Transit type buses)?

2). Do you know if pwcs are allowed on bike paths in the US?

3). You mentioned snow/ dirt tires are available for Permobil chairs. Do you or your wife install these yourselves, or do you have to take the chair to your local dealer to have the tires swapped out?

Thanks,
 
Karen, here are some thoughts on your questions.

1. Every bus I have tried to board has had either a wheelchair ramp or a wheelchair lift. Every transit agency I have checked about (my checking is limited to the US) has claimed every bus in their fleet has either a wheelchair ramp or a wheelchair lift. Most transit agencies I have checked into also have a van service for those unable to use a bus for some reason, though the requirements to be able to take advantage of this service varies from strict to loose.

My two C500s fit easily on every bus I have tried. I go up the ramp/lift, make the turn down the aisle, and then pivot into a space created by folding up one of the forward seats. For some reason I find that easier to do on the driver's side vs the passenger's side, but can do either without much trouble.

2. Wheelchairs are allowed anywhere on federal lands unless specifically prohibited. While motorized vehicles are prohibited in wilderness areas and off sidewalks and roads in national parks, a law was passed (at the federal level) designating wheelchair uses as pedestrians/hikers, so we are allowed anywhere not specifically prohibited.

The requirements are that the wheelchair must have 4 wheels and must be suitable for indoor use. The only places I have seen prohibitions are for wheelchairs with 2 wheels (adapted segways) and that is for areas that would be dangerous if power to the stabilizing system was lost. This is the case on paths and boardwalks near thermal features in Yellowstone. A dip in one of the thermal features would be fatal.

States seem to have followed the federal lead, but I don't know the rules for every state.

Where I live, and everywhere I visit, wheelchairs are allowed on bike paths. I have never had anyone give me a hard time about being on one. In fact, most folks are excited to see me out and about in my wheelchair.

In short, yes, wheelchairs are permitted on bike paths in the US. I have ridden many hundreds of miles on bike paths.

3. I can buy snow/mud tires via NuMotion. They charge about $800 for the pair of drive tires. The reason is because they don't want to mount the tires on the rims, so they buy them from Permobil with rims, tubes, and tires all mounted up and ready to go.

I persuaded NuMotion to sell me a set of Permobil snow/mud tires alone for about $200 shipped. My friend and I mounted them with some tubes (from Amazon) on the rims that came with my wheelchair.

They are much cheaper from other sources, though I have only found Permobil branded snow/mud tires. The price seems to be about the same (about $100), but the shipping varies dramatically (from a few dollars to about $100!).

I have acquired two spare sets of rims. I pay about $50 to $100 per pair on ebay. They are over $500 from NuMotion.

There are some lessons to be learned about removing the regular, foam-filled tires as well as mounting the pneumatic snow/mud tires. But, once those lessons are learned, it is not a hard job at all. Anyone who has changed a bicycle tire will feel right at home doing this.

We jack up the wheelchair either with an automotive floor jack or using leverage with a four foot long 2x4 (blocking the wheelchair up with wood). Be sure to chock the wheels first.

To remove the wheel, for allen-headed bolts are removed and the wheel just about falls off. The wheels use spit rims with an outer half and an inner half held together with 6 bolts. If pneumatic tires are mounted, bleed the air out before removing those bolts.

We use steel-cored tire irons I picked up at Performance bike (their house brand...they have an orange plastic exterior). The are excellent. Inferior tire irons will break.

Using leverage rather than brute force, we remove the tire from the rim. To put the new tire on the rim, slide the tire on the larger split rim, inflate the tube a bit, slip the tube on the rim in the correct orientation (if using a tube), and lightly place the other half split rim in place aligning the bolt holes and valve stem cutout.

Before bolting the split rims together, use something like a popsicle stick to push on the tube and make sure it will not be pinched by the split rims. Then bolt the split rims together, tightening gradually in sequence around the rim.

It is much easier if you buy 3 longer bolts for the rims. You can use these to get things started, then put in three of the regular bolts, remove the three longer bolts, and finally install the final three regular bolts. There is a youtube video showing how to do this.

I have done this entire job before, but am no longer able to do so. My friend Greg helps me out with wheelchair maintenance and we have a great time while doing it. It is kind of like working on bikes;).

I like Kenda tubes and bought Kenda Inner Tube - 3.00-8 - TR-87 Valve Stem 71505622 from amazon. They are a perfect fit and heavy duty.

Two other tips. Don't forget to use locktight where required (called out in the service manual). You want locktight blue, NOT locktight red (which is permanent unless heat or solvent is applied). Confusingly, locktight red comes in a blue bottle, so be careful when buying it.

Second, I highly recommend getting a torque wrench. The service manual provides the torque setting for many of the bolts on the wheelchair. I think it is particularly important when working on safety critical bolts, such as those on wheels. I bought a TEKTON 24330 3/8-Inch Drive Click Torque Wrench (10-80 ft.-lb./13.6-108.5 Nm) from Amazon and am very happy with it. I also have a 1/4 inch torque wrench from my bicycle days. I use it regularly for smaller bolts on the wheelchair.

When I am riding around on pneumatic tires I always carry a pump, spare tube, patch kit, and tools in a backpack. While I won't be able to repair a flat, I have confidence someone will come along who will be willing to help out.

I like Rema patch kits. My favorite portable pump is the Topeak Turbo Morph Bike Pump with Gauge (bought from Amazon). This comes with a mounting bracket that can be easily mounted on the side of the wheelchair seat's unitrack (you will need to procure two small bolts and nuts. I ride my wheelchair into Ace Hardware and they help me pick out just the right size.

Sorry this got a bit long. I am sure it is much more information than you were interested in hearing and it is far off topic from the OPs initial post. I hope it is helpful.

Steve
 
The commuter bus system in my area has at least one wheelchair accessible bus but they require 24 hours advance notice to be sure there will be one when you want to take it. This is a private company

The public transit system has accessible buses always. If you look at the webite where you plan to use it you should get good details. Our system has specific information on accessibility for all the public transit and for the trip planner you can specify accessible route. There are a few stations of our subway that are not fully accessible I think.
 
Thanks for all the info.

I admit to being nervous about the whole wheelchair thing. I think part of it is that my speech issues and PBA make me feel more vulnerable in public. Anyway, I am looking forward to regaining some freedom.
 
Consider making cards that you can show people explain that you understand fully but can not speak. Add what you need them to know. Or have several that you can choose from.
 
That's a good recommendation, Nikki. I have one that I have used a few times. My husband calls it my "Get out of Jail Free" card.

Gorby- The SLP at GF Strong has laminated cards you can use- specific to PLS, even. I bet the clinic coordinator can send you however many you need if you send her an email.
 
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