Power wheelchair?

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JAM

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CALS
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Racine
Hi all,
Although my PAL’s is still walking (albeit slowly) and still has no drop foot or balance issues, he is looking at power chairs. Wow they are a lot of $ :(. I’ve seen past post about ALSA?? Any other grants etc that might help us? Also, do you think he should just skip over a rollator? He seems to be heading that direction. Note: he is an anxious person so first sign of anything he tends to go extreme. (In everything in life not just ALS issues) TIA!
 
Insurance should mostly pay for a pwc. And do not use your benefit for a different wheelchair or scooter. The clinic can help with ordering and it does take time but there needs to be a clinical indication. What makes him slow?

A rollator can be very helpful and if needed () get one. I got mine from amazon and use it sometimes. It helps with saving energy and I am faster with it. And it was a lifesaver when I injured my good leg earlier this year.

You should discuss this with your clinic pt. There are also many discussions here about them. Our resident experts are swalker and lgelb
 
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Totally agree with Nikki. Don't waste a once-in-five-years benefit on anything but a fully-loaded power chair. Given the time it takes, it's probably not too early to start the discussion with the clinic.

Meanwhile, a rollator can be helpful to a slow walker if only as a signal to others to give him some room, and later to provide some balance and support. Just make sure to get one with big enough wheels to be comfortable outside and one whose handles can be placed at a height and angle that he is not slumped or having to reach up.
 
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Ty both. So our clinic should help us with this? I can email the social worker ?? Or is it the physical therapist who helps?? Also can you tell me what ALSA is? No one at the clinic was super helpful. They were all very nice and professional, but honestly we are navigating everything on our own and this forum is basically it. Thx again.
 
Do all insurance carriers allow for PWC?
 
My doctor recommended I get a power wheelchair about 9 months before I was formally diagnosed. I waited for a year, which was about 3 months after formal diagnosis to start the process of getting a wheelchair. It took 4 months to get the wheelchair. I was still able to walk, but was very slow and very unsteady. I went straight from using a cane to using a wheelchair. I never used a rollator.

Wheelchairs are expensive. My first wheelchair arrived in early 2015. The list price for the wheelchair was $55,000. Insurance (United Healthcare) paid for the wheelchair except for a deductible and for the cost of the seat elevate feature. I paid about $4,000 out of pocket.

My most recent wheelchair was funded by Medicare and took 7 months to receive. The list price on that wheelchair was about $96,000. The Medicare negotiated price seemed to be about $76,000. I paid $4,000 out of pocket to upgrade from a Permobil F3 to a Permobil F5.

PALS will eventually reach a point where then need a wheelchair. Given the long lead times on getting a wheelchair I would encourage all PALS to start early.

Part of getting a wheelchair is figuring out how you will use it in and around your home and how you will transport it and your PALS. For most folks, that will cost much more than the out of pocket portion of acquiring a wheelchair.

When I received my latest wheelchair, I needed to get rid of another one from my collection of wheelchairs (I have 5 wheelchairs). I tried to donate it to the ALS Association (ALSA), but they were not accepting wheelchair donations because they had too many wheelchairs. I donated it to another health charity in my area.

So, I would expect that getting a loaner wheelchair from the ALSA in your area is likely to be possible.

Steve
 
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Yes I think any decent insurance would cover with possible deductibles and copays. Most of us have medicare - he does not? Is he still working?

My sister got her wheelchair through private insurance as did a friend of mine

Have you been to clinic yet? ( as opposed to doctor visits for diagnosis and confirmation ). Clinics generally have two styles. One you see everyone - doctor, pt, ot ,st, social worker etc every time. The other style ( which is what mgh does) you have an appointment with the clinician. If you or the clinician think it necessary you will see whatever discipline appropriate

At my clinic it would be the pt I would start with. There is an art to ordering so that it is covered and you get all the add ons necessary for a PALS and clinics should have plenty of experience
 
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Our clinic just rotated people in the room while we waited. We will email the PT. She only met him once so hopefully she will have an idea of what he needs in terms of add ons etc. we applied last week for SSD, waiting for a call from them. We are confused about Medicare so hoping the SS rep will give us some guidance or where to read up on different options ???

We have United Healthcare which is very good. My Pals is a retired teacher so very fortunate with insurance.

It sounds like either way where we pay for upgrades on Medicare chair or use insurance and pay deductible we will be out of pocket about 4-5k so would you recommend one way to the other?
 
If you mean picking a medicare plan suggest you contact your state’s SHINE program. They have volunteer trained counselors who can explain things to you. This might be a busy time as it is reenrollment time for the medicare part d drug program. Something that happens annually. Call tomorrow and get started

I would also check with his union or hr or whoever your current contact is about how this will affect you if you get your insurance through him and if he can still use the retirement plan when eligible for medicare. If it is an option you will have to decide what is best for you.

It is going to take a while to get the chair. You need to have the same insurance throughout the process so if you think you are going on medicare don’t start until you are there
 
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Steve-
When you used your private insurance did you work with your ALS clinic to do paperwork to be sure it qualified? We have United Health as well. TIA
 
My sister has United Healthcare. It was through her physical therapist via the ALS clinic that they ordered her chair. She has been told to stay on United Health Care insurance as long as possible as it is better. The Physical Therapist did all the work to get things approved by insurance. She got approved for a chair that can allow her to be in a standing posititon(it is new on the market) and it will take about 3-4 months to get.
 
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JAM, I have slow progression, so I started the process of getting my first wheelchair about 10 years ago. My insurance at that time was United Healthcare, which was willing to fund a better wheelchair than I think Medicare would currently fund.

Many things have changed in the insurance market over the last 10 years, so what I experienced 10 years ago may very well not be the case today.

For that first wheelchair, my neurologist wrote a prescription for the wheelchair. I then met with an Assistive Technology Professional (ATP) at Numotion, the DME (Durable Medical Equipment provider) that was recommended to me.

The ATP was wonderful. She had been a physical therapist and had vast knowledge of both wheelchairs and funding mechanisms. I worked with her for 5 years until she left. Virtually the entire staff at my local Numotion branch has turned over since then and they are not nearly as good as they used to be.

I then had to see a separate physical therapist and be evaluated for wheelchair fit and function. I worked with a great physical therapist.

Based on all that, we selected a Permobil C500s VS. That was the then top of the line, high speed, standing wheelchair that Permobil offered. That has been replaced in their lineup with the F5 VS. My C500s VS had power legs, power recline, power tilt, and power seat elevate. We ordered 12 inch lateral thigh supports and swing away lateral thoracic supports. My United Healthcare insurance policy covered everything except the seat elevate feature. Of course, I had to pay my remaining deductible.

I tried to have Medicare fund a Permobil F5 VS in 2019. They would fund the F5 because I had a medical need for a standing wheelchair (the VS in the model designation), but would not pay for the standing feature. When I was informed my out of pocket costs would likely be $18,000 to $20,000 I decided to go a different direction. I bought a used Permobil F5 for $3,500 and have since put over 3,000 miles on it.

This year I acquired a Permobil F5 (non VS) which was funded by Medicare. Medicare would only fund an F3 and I had to pay the difference in price between the F3 and the F5. That difference was about $4,000. Of course, I would have had to pay any remaining deductible as well, but that amount was $0 for me (pretty typical for someone with any significant medical issues).

I have written extensively about my experiences in acquiring wheelchairs, both through insurance and via the used market. You can use the search function to find those posts.

Here is what I go for in a wheelchair:
1. I like the Permobil product line. In that line, the model that works best for me is the F5. I am willing to pay the difference to get an F5.
2. I like/need having the standing feature, but rely on my 10 year old Permobil C500s VS for that. It is still fully functional, though parts are very scarce for it.
3. I need the 12 inch long lateral thigh supports to keep my legs in place
4. I really need lateral thoracic supports. I vastly prefer the swing away style
5. I really value having the swing away joystick mount. It lets me get closer to tables, etc.
6. I insist on having the seat elevate function. I have that on all 5 of my wheelchairs. Medicare will now pay for this
7. I really like having lights. On my most recent F5, Permobil included the lights for free.
8. I need a Roho Quadtro seat cushion. No other seat cushion has worked for me.
9. I need a Roho back cushion.
10. The stock configuration does not allow the headrest to come far enough forward so that it can properly support my head. I have fought this on every wheelchair I have used. Be sure that extra hardware is included so the headrest can be properly positioned.
11. I really prefer Permobil's aggressive tread tires. I have them on all 4 of my Permobil wheelchairs. In winter, I use Permobil's dedicated mud and snow tires. They are made from a tackier substance and have a flatter profile for a better contact patch. They work surprising well on snow and ice, but wear very quickly on dry pavement.
12. I like to have the programming modified to increase the maximum reverse speed. On wide open stretches I like to drive backwards so I can see my wife. Note my wheelchair's all go faster than she can walk!
13. There are softkeys around the perimeter of the LCD display. I leave the top left one in the default configuration (short press is lights, long press takes you to settings). I have the other 3 softkeys programmed in a latching fashion to activate seat elevate, memory position 1, and memory position 3.
14. The new Permobil wheelchairs based on the Power Platform allow 6 memory positions to be saved. The older wheelchairs only allowed 3 memory positions. I have all 6 positions configured in my latest wheelchair and really like that
15. I have bag hooks on all my wheelchairs. They are stupidly expensive (almost $100) from Permobil, but are worth it to me. I use them to hold a backpack that contains rain gear and essential tools and sundries. More recently, I use them for the pack that has my bipap machine.
16. I have to have a "seatbelt" to keep me from sliding out of the wheelchair. This is formally called a posture support device and is not adequate for true seatbelt applications.

Here are a few closing thoughts.

I thought having a wheelchair was just a confirmation that I was disabled. I resisted getting one for way too long. What I found was that wheelchairs have restored my freedom. An unexpected benefit is that they have given me something to focus my creative energy on. I became interested in them and have built a collection that suits my needs very well. They are easy to work on and parts are readily available for reasonable prices on the used market. I have a good friend that does the heavy lifting and wrench turning for me.

Early on, an experienced wheelchair user told me "if you need a wheelchair, you need at least 2". The reason is that wheelchairs are subject to failures that can put them out of commission for extended periods of time. Having a backup is really important. My first wheelchair spent almost 3 of the first 5 years in the shop. I have had my most recent F5 for about 2.5 months. Initially there were 7 things wrong with it (some pretty major) and now we are down to only 4 things that need to be fixed. I anticipate it will be another 3 to 6 months to get everything addressed.

Buying a wheelchair is like buying a car or a house (or any other major item). While you are in the process of getting the wheelchair, the DME will likely be pretty attentive. Once you sign the delivery paperwork, the DME gets paid. After that, don't expect phone calls to be returned! What that means is don't accept a wheelchair until it is 100% to your liking.

I learned to drive a wheelchair pretty quickly, but still managed to put a few holes in the drywall as I was learning. Don't spend too much time worrying about those kinds of dings. They are sure to happen!

Steve
 
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While you are talking to HR/the union (both if he is in a union), ask about any STD/LTD disability coverage and the circumstances under which it kicks in, in addition to the health insurance issues. You want to look at how everything pencils out in total and if there are reasons for him to stay on the payroll till X date, if he's still on it.

All UHC plans are not the same; same for any other network like Aetna, Cigna, Humana, Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Check the particulars for yours before concluding what the benefits will be. There should be a summary on line.

One comment re Steve's thorough list -- we say "postural support device" in industry because that is how billing works. PSDs include hip belts (often misleadingly called a "seat belt"), chest belts/vest-like cut outs, shoulder supports, laterals, lower leg, ankle huggers, and much more. These are underutilized in ALS -- unless ordered with more, wheelchairs come with a hip belt as a default, and that's it. But if you need extra support for your upper or lower body, rattle your ATP's cage until they order it. Any of these can be added on at any time.

Unlike "seat belts" in motor vehicles, hip belts should be installed at the angle and position appropriate for you in order to work properly. If yours isn't helping you maintain a comfortable, stable position, that's another reason to rattle the cage. Some PTs and OTs know how to do this or can help work with the ATP at your DME to get what you need.
 
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So helpful. Thanks everyone. Sorry what is ATP, DME? Is there somewhere that lists all the acronyms?
 
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