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Manhattanite, Steve has a aide once per week. That's all we asked for but think we could have received more. Hospice is not only for pain and our doctor was the one who suggested it. She is no longer seeing Steve and lost him as a patient due to the rules of hospice. Our hospice agency has other ALS patients and have been very helpful so far. If this agency does not offer guidance, support, a nurse, a doctor on call, an aide and RT, than I would find another one. That's if there are choices.

Steve still gets most of his care done by us but having the medical care come to us makes it easier on Steve. Good luck and I hope it all goes well for you.
 
Hospice has been good for me and my cals.
Nurse comes once a wk to see how we're doing and never rushes things, in fact had good long talk about the dying process and what to possibly expect.
Aides every morning to help dress ,shower and light cleaning.
This is payed out by VA, so if your a vet this is a good thing.
At first I was in the dark as to what hospice really was but after getting schooled on it I am really glad we're on it. They also get any meds for me and that gets delivered!
Good luck all. Chally
 
My husband started hospice this week. We are getting aides every day and the nurse comes twice a week.
What the doctor explain is that not every hospice allows to use the trilogy, so they recommended vitas, and I am really happy with the care they show.
This gives me a little relieve knowing that I have support when I need in this tragedy.
My husband's progression has been so fast, it is only a year when he was diagnosed.
 
We have been told by hospice in Virginia that they could send an aide for an hour a day, 3 to 5 days a week, for a bath or other very specific task. The aid won't do the feeding tube or administer meds and we can't leave the house while they are there. We could get 2 -3 days of respite care once every six months. We are getting more services through Medicare home health.

I need extra hands and opportunities to leave the house, not emotional support from a social worker, which is what we've been told they could provide that would be 'helpful' to us. They said they could help us come up with a plan to utilize family members for support. Seriously, like I haven't already tried to tap that resource?

So would love to hear specifically about what services you all are getting so I know what to ask for. Adrivtham, what services do that aides provide for you???
Tracy
 
The aide helps with the bathing which I used to do after work. We do the rest as feeding and medications. They have provided some stuff like a bedside table, gloves, medications and the tube feeding food.
What they have told me is that they will increase the visits of the nurse as the situation gets critical. A kit for emergencies is going to arrive soon to have it at home.
It is still a lot of work for me but is much better then before. I can call them at any time and they send a nurse or answer my questions on the phone.
They have sent a chaplain that is planning to come twice a month.
The social worker seems not that good we just have talked to her on the phone maybe when we meet face to face my perception changes.
Our goal is having him comfortable .
 
I am a hospice social worker for a large not-for-profit hospice in a larger city-we have 4 inpatient care centers and as an organization care for over 700 patients per day. There are at least 11 other hospices in our area-most are for profit. Many things can depend on the hospice that you choose and the area that you live in. All are all bound by the Medicare guidelines for payment and care. I currently have an ALS patient in a nursing home whom we are supplying all the needed medical equipment, including a cough assist machine, all tube feeding (as that is her only means of nutrition), low air loss mattress to prevent sores and provide comfort, an electric recliner, an aide 2-3 times per week, nurse at least once per week, volunteer visits (including free hair cuts), social work and chaplain visits, etc. This is in addition to the care being provided at the nursing home. We also work closely with our local ALS Association chapter and utilize the "closet" for any needed supplies for communication enhancement, etc. We pay for needed therapies, including respiratory. We have patients on vents. Hospice is paid a per diem per day rate for each patient regardless of their disease process or the cost to the hospice. Some patients require greater amounts of equipment, visits, care, etc. Others not so much. We don't stop providing care because a patient's costs are over the per diem.
What we do not do is provide 24/7 care until the person is needing more care for acute symptom management. That care can stop and start with no limit to the number of times needed. We provide respite care every 30 days for 5 days in our inpatient units, including transportation to and from, for PALS so their CALS can rest, go out of town, etc. Under special circumstances we have allowed more frequently. This is all part of hospice care and is paid by Medicare.

Patients are eligible for hospice care with 6 months to live if their disease process continues its natural progression. This can be an educated guess in many diseases, and they are re-certified at 60 and 90 day time increments. The 6 months starts over from each recertification. There is no limit to the time a person can have hospice services as long as they are eligible. I have had a woman for 6.5 years with Alzheimers and she has qualified every day of that time.

We also provide free bereavement services including group support, individual counseling with one of 5 bereavement counselors (one of whom is a children's bereavement expert) who will come to the home of a person or meet in our bereavement center, and of course literature. We have a children's bereavement center and a camp in the summer where group activities are specific to the type of loss experienced. This is for after the loss. This is free to all in the community-not just hospice patients and families.

Our aides provide bathing, grooming, nail care (no nail cutting-nurses do that), light housekeeping, have run to the store for folks, hair care (curling, styling), putting creams and lotions on. This can be up to 5 days per week for a max of 4 hours per day. That much time is usually rare, but an ALS patient may need that amount. They bring supplies, etc. They do not take BP or vital signs. We have nurses that do that.

We provide 24/7 on call support and a nurse, social worker or chaplain can come out day or night to assess and provide care.

I'm sorry some folks haven't received the care they may be entitled to. Care plans are individualized and should reflect quality of life care for patient and family. We try to be prudent and work to assess what may be ahead and have a plan in place for this. I believe some smaller communities do not have the resources and/or staff to provide as much.

Wishing you all peace in your journeys-
 
We are with Vitas. Today our aide showered, put lotion and helped Steve to get dressed. They will change his bedsheets and help with his grooming if needed. His Trilogy, cough assist, medications and supplies are a taken care of through hospice. We do have 24/7 support. He sees a nurse once per week, has seen a chaplain and the social worker.

No its not full time care and we do have to be at home. All I can say is that some extra care is better than none. The shower is a huge bonus for us, meds being delivered, we no longer have to pay co-pays on equipment, meds or doctors appointments. They also have respite service but we will not be using it.

I think that research is important. Interview the agency and make sure they back up their promises. Stay on top of them just as you do everything else. If you need something ask. For us it has been ok and helpful. They were also wonderful for my mother last year before she died.
 
We have Vitas as well
 
Thank you for the replies, this is all very informative.

At this point I feel that we are getting almost everything that hospice would provide, except that it comes from several different sources and I am the person who has to manage it all. We are happy with our current neuro, our respiratory therapist, our nutritionist, etc., so perhaps there is no need to go to hospice right now in our given situation. We are not "spiritually oriented" to put it that way, so I don't see much value in a hospice chaplain coming to the house. On the other hand, a weekly nurse visit would make me feel better about a professional anticipating needs that I have not thought about...

The most valuable thing I have learned from this thread is that hospice will be covered by Medicare and that it will provide the care we will need at the end. Originally I was so anxious about finances and having to qualify for Medicaid.
 
Deb. We live in Texas also but were told because he has a vent and a feeding tube that we do not qualify for Hospice. I am assuming that your PALS does not have a vent or feeding tube. If he does, please give me the phone number of the company you are using. We are at our wits end. He doesn't sleep for more than about an hour at a time. I am exhausted. We need help. My son and I do all of the RT because Medicare doesn't pay for it. He needs PT and OT but they say that he has hit a plat to and will not cover that either.
Carol
 
Carol, i am in bed reading this post. Tomorrow morning I will udate with a number. Steve does have a feeding tube but he does not have a trache. I would love to help you find some help and have some ideas. Private text me and hopefully we can find you some help. You shouldnt have to deal with this alone. There are support services, agengies, groups and associations. Maybe we can work together and find at least some help for you. Hugs!
 
Hi Carol, many VNA agencies use the " no improvement" comment to stop services, ie PT, OT saying Medicare will not pay without it. In fact, Medicare has never had that standard in their regs, it will pay as long as their is a need for skilled services for maintenance that will prevent or slow deterioration. Below is a paragraph speaking to this from medicareadvocacy.org regarding an important case decided just last year called "Jimmo ". We are still receiving VNA services after 3 years of decline, they are limited but still helpful. My husband is trached and vented and denied hospice care also but your agency should be able to do more for you and have it paid for by Medicare. Best of luck, Kate
As CMS states in the Transmittal announcing the Jimmo Manual revisions:

No “Improvement Standard” is to be applied in determining Medicare coverage for maintenance claims that require skilled care. Medicare has long recognized that even in situations where no improvement is possible, skilled care may nevertheless be needed for maintenance purposes (i.e., to prevent or slow a decline in condition). The Medicare statute and regulations have never supported the imposition of an “Improvement Standard” rule-of-thumb in determining whether skilled care is required to prevent or slow deterioration in a patient’s condition. Thus, such coverage depends not on the beneficiary’s restoration potential, but on whether skilled care is required, along with the underlying reasonableness and necessity of the services themselves. The manual revisions now being issued will serve to reflect and articulate this basic principle more clearly. [Emphasis in original.]
 
Hi Carol, many VNA agencies use the " no improvement" comment to stop services, ie PT, OT saying Medicare will not pay without it. In fact, Medicare has never had that standard in their regs, it will pay as long as their is a need for skilled services for maintenance that will prevent or slow deterioration. Below is a paragraph speaking to this from medicareadvocacy.org regarding an important case decided just last year called "Jimmo ". We are still receiving VNA services after 3 years of decline, they are limited but still helpful. My husband is trached and vented and denied hospice care also but your agency should be able to do more for you and have it paid for by Medicare. Best of luck, Kate
As CMS states in the Transmittal announcing the Jimmo Manual revisions:

No “Improvement Standard” is to be applied in determining Medicare coverage for maintenance claims that require skilled care. Medicare has long recognized that even in situations where no improvement is possible, skilled care may nevertheless be needed for maintenance purposes (i.e., to prevent or slow a decline in condition). The Medicare statute and regulations have never supported the imposition of an “Improvement Standard” rule-of-thumb in determining whether skilled care is required to prevent or slow deterioration in a patient’s condition. Thus, such coverage depends not on the beneficiary’s restoration potential, but on whether skilled care is required, along with the underlying reasonableness and necessity of the services themselves. The manual revisions now being issued will serve to reflect and articulate this basic principle more clearly. [Emphasis in original.]
 
Carol, sorry I came down with a bug and have been sick for a couple of days. The number for our Vitas is 214/ 424-5600. Who is your husbands doctor and clinic? Steve's doctor put in the request for Steve and it made it a lot easier for us. I also think I remember their saying they have patients on vents. They may not be able to help with the suctioning but can help with other parts of his care.

I live close by and work in Arlington. Maybe we can meet up or talk on the phone. I would love to help and maybe find you and your son some relief.
 
All [hospices] are all [sic] bound by the Medicare guidelines for payment and care.

This statement is not accurate. In the U.S., hospices and hospice professionals are regulated by the states, not by the federal government. Whenever a health care worker says that a service will not be provided because "we have to follow Medicare guidelines," the proper thing to do is to put the person making the false statement into a headlock and firmly administer noogies upon their skull until they swear on their grandmother's grave that they will never say those words again. According to sections 1801-03 of the Social Security Act of 1965, which established Medicare, that program does not regulate the practice of medicine or the manner in which medical services are provided, and cannot preclude any State from providing, or any individual from purchasing or otherwise securing, protection against the cost of any health services. So while there are many state regulations that adopt certain Medicare guidelines as "floors" of quality medical care, I'm not aware of any state that adopts any Medicare guideline as a "ceiling" that would preclude the provision of care required by the state's standards. Accordingly, the statement "We are bound by Medicare guidelines" is not only a hospice myth, but it is a dangerous myth that pervades the entire U.S. health care system. Again, noogies should be firmly applied to anyone who repeats this myth.

And as for payment, Medicare guidelines are binding only on Medicare patients. For non-Medicare patients, Medicare payment guidelines are inapplicable and irrelevant.

What we do not do is provide 24/7 care until the person is needing more care for acute symptom management.

If palliation of symptoms relating to a patient's terminal illness requires 24/7 care, a hospice is required to provide it. Period. That is the rule, and there are no exceptions, qualifications, or limitations. While it may be true that this care will usually only be required when symptoms are acute or severe, there are certainly hospice patients--including some ALS patients--who require 24/7 care on a routine basis. To make any statement suggesting that necessary palliative care will not be made available violates both the letter and the spirit of the law, which is deliberately written in a way that avoids any such limitations so that every hospice patient's care needs can be assessed on an individual basis.

Now, it is true that Medicare payment guidelines, which require a Medicare patient to be categorized as needing either "routine" or "acute" care for purposes of establishing a per diem rate, effectively make providing routine 24/7 care for some ALS patients into an unfunded mandate. But it is still a mandate, meaning the hospice is required to provide the care, even though it is provided at a financial loss. In theory, this loss is made up for by having other patients who require less care, but in practice, most hospices improperly place limits on the level of care they will provide to patients. As a social worker who is interested in helping ALS patients, one way you could help is to petition CMS to consider the needs of ALS patients when they revise their funding guidelines, so hospices won't have to take such a severe financial loss when they have a patient who requires 24/7 care on a routine basis. CMS used to pay hospices enough to make providing this care profitable, so it is clearly feasible to fix the flaws in the current funding structure.

For non-Medicare patients, this funding discussion has no relevance. The hospice has the power to negotiate a fair payment structure with the patient's health plan, and money should never be a reason to limit the patient's care.

Patients are eligible for hospice care with 6 months to live if their disease process continues its natural progression.

This is not always true. There are some health plans, as well as some state regulations, that have more liberal eligibility requirements. In California, for example, patients are eligible for hospice when their life expectancy is 12 months, not 6. Medical Mutual of Ohio does not have any set time limit for hospice eligibility. As indicated in my original post, every patient should carefully research their own plan's eligibility requirements. When hospice workers tell PALS they are not eligible until they have a life expectancy of six months, they are perpetuating a myth that can lead to unnecessary suffering.

[Aide services] can be up to 5 days per week for a max of 4 hours per day. That much time is usually rare, but an ALS patient may need that amount.

If palliation of symptoms relating to a patient's terminal illness requires more than 4 hours per day of aide service, a hospice is required to provide it. Period. That is the rule, and there are no exceptions, qualifications, or limitations. In our case, health regulators determined that one aide visit per day was insufficient for my wife and ordered the hospice to provide twice-daily three hour aide visits, for a total of six hours per day, because that is what was necessary in her case. It really doesn't help people on this forum to tell them about ceilings and limits to hospice care, because there are no ceilings or limits other than what is needed in any individual case.

Care plans are individualized and should reflect quality of life care for patient and family. We try to be prudent and work to assess what may be ahead and have a plan in place for this.

Yes! Yes! Yes!
 
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