Is This the Last Phase?

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Atsugi

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My PALS has been sleeping or near-sleeping for a couple of days now, ever since we returned from the ER/hospital stay.

Very shallow breathing. Depressed mood. Just sitting and sleeping.

Does anyone know what the beginning of the end looks like?
 
Is she on bipap? My first thought is not enough oxygen is making it to her brain. The cough assist might help, too--and she might need suctioning.

If she's having any kind of panic, it's likely air hunger, and will be treated by hospice (assuming you have them in place) with morphine.

How are her sats? I'm in Orlando---if you need help, PM and I'll send you my cell number
 
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Dear Atsugi,
I'm sorry to hear your pals is sleeping a lot right now. My heart goes out to you. It could be a sign or it might not. Your doctor might be best placed to answer your question about whether your pals is entering a late stage of this disease.

In case this gives you any comfort my pals had periods of sleeping during her als which did not signify for her the beginning of the end. Sometimes it was plain exhaustion. Later insufficient oxygen played a part. This was one of the signals that we were in the late stages. However, late stages and actively beginning the process of dying seem different to me. It seems to me that entering the final stage can happen with a sudden event or come on progressively and be read by a whole range of factors-but I am no doctor. Again, your doctor or hospice might help you best to 'read' what is going on.

Speaking for myself, by the time the professionals were telling us we were entering the late, then later on the final times, I already knew it in my gut. Though I kept wondering and questioning and hoping, I knew really, so as well as relying on medical help and support I'd be asking what in your heart of hearts do you think yourself?

So no definite answers here but thinking of you post hospital stay.
 
:( I'm so sorry. I can't say for sure either way but can say that's how my mom went. It came on sudden and she just started sleeping most of the day for about 2 days. From what I've read here it does sound like a build of CO2. Is she ready to go? Is there any chance she may change her mind about a PEG or Trach now that the event may be approaching?

I am struggling with the words looking to provide you some comfort but I know there's little that can be said to make someone feel better in this situation.

Please keep us posted.
 
It could be the start of CO2 build up or she could just be exhausted from her hospital stay. Or it could be a reaction to any new medication she's on. Can't remember if she is on hospice yet or not... if so, I'd call them, or contact her neuro.
 
One more thing---morphine, when one isn't used to it, is extremely sedating, so if she's newly on morphine THAT could be a huge issue.
 
But you can move, right?

Thanks, all. Really do appreciate all the useful input.

We're both emotionally ready for the end at any time. CO2 buildup or morphine is the way she wants to go.

Last Sunday morning she was sitting quietly, started to cry and said, "it's time to call hospice." That evening at 6 PM I called EMTs to get some O2. The driver got lost making every wrong turn and circling back on himself several times. Everyone at the ER knew us on sight by name from the previous week's visit. At 10 PM we opted to stay overnight to give us both a rest. We asked for an air mattress. And I went home to the kids.

Monday when I awoke and went in at 10 AM, I found she hadn't had breakfast or teeth brushing. A cart with mattresses showed up at noon.

At noon I asked which hospitalist groups did these doctors supposedly come from? At 2 I called the groups. Neither had received any consult, nor had any record of my PALS. I asked them to send their rounding doctor to our room.

By 3 both hospitalist and pulmonologist had showed up saying they hadn't received any consult. Each quickly looked her over, ordered a test, and left. At 4, when I asked radiology and respiratory, they hadn't gotten any consult, but they sent techs. So we settled in for another overnight.

Tuesday I arrived at 9 am and found she hadn't been tended to at all, and her mattress was UNPLUGGED, totally DEFLATED. She hadn't slept due to the constant excruciating pain in her butt bone. No doctor had seen her. I asked for breakfast and bathroom and reminded everyone to call X-ray. She was scheduled for 10:30. When I called at 11 they said she was scheduled for 11:15. At 11:45 they sent someone to wheel her down to Imaging where her gurney stayed in the hallway unattended for 30 minutes. They shot films and wheeled her back up to bed by 1 PM. At 2 PM I found that no one had ordered lunch for her. By 3 she was being fed the noon meal. I was watching the clock, talking about leaving AMA.

I asked for a Patient Advocate (which brought blank stares) or a complaints department (don't have one) and then toured around the hospital several times with a map in my hand until I found the case management director's office. She was at a meeting, but another woman noted my concerns at 3:30.

By 4 both docs showed up. The hospitalist said she would have come earlier if she knew we were ready for discharge, and said she would enter a note approving discharge if the pulmonologist allowed it. The pulmonologist showed up saying he hadn't heard a thing, didn't know about the patient, hadn't seen any films, and he listened to her chest and said she could go home. I brought our power chair up to the room and we drove away.

Everyone was always nice, friendly, concerned and professional and I was always polite and never raised a voice. But I learned three things from our hospital:

1) Hospitals have a lot of patients to tend to, and unexpected things happen, so a simple task might take all day to accomplish. Hospitals are paid by the day.

2) It's more efficient to process patients as batches. If a task is on their list, a department will endeavor to get it done by the end of their shift.

3) Consulting doctors get their list of names at the beginning of the day, prioritize the list, do the list, and go away. If your consult is not in their service by 7 AM, they won't check for changes until the next day.

4) Patient-centric care or "the patient comes first" was a phrase invented in a marketing meeting. The reality depends upon the individual provider or assistant.

Our whole experience with the medical establishment, everywhere, is summed up here: I can't tell you how many times, when I would say, "Due to ALS, she is totally paralyzed, and cannot move her hands, arms, legs, feet and torso, and has little capacity to swallow or even breathe," the response (from non-doctors) was almost always, "BUT YOU CAN MOVE, RIGHT?"
 
Sigh

Ok--first--CALL HOSPICE. Call the doctors office NOW and demand a HOSPICE referral be written NOW. Get Hospice in to help her. God, I can't imagine why you were even CIVIL to the idiots at the hospital--I assure you, I would NOT have been.

If she is ok with CO2 build-up as a way to pass--it's all well and good--but what you, your kids or her won't want is a feeling of air hunger. It will make her panic that she is suffocating. NOT a pleasant way to go, believe me.

I've found that the hospitals in this area are AWFUL. It's not the place for a PAL unless they need immediate treatment.

With a PAL--she needs someone with her 24/7 at this point--she obviously can't be abandoned to a hospital where she can't even get help if she needs it.

AM care is done in the AM--that's why it's CALLED AM CARE. There is no excuse for her air mattress to have not been plugged in and inflated to the proper level. None. Period.

Hospice will come--assuming you have an order. This is Florida--hell, we are hospice central in this state. The world comes here to retire!

Please--I understand you're emotionally ready to let her go--and she's ready to go--but there is absolutely NO reason that this passing can't be very, very PEACEFUL and COMFORTABLE for her!

Please, call and get the help she needs today. And that damn hospital needs reported to anyone and everyone that will listen.

Nurses, AND CNA's are trained for a reason. I teach EVERY STUDENT I TEACH about ALS and about being "Locked In" there is no excuse for that statement you've heard to be uttered. None at all. I teach a short--get a job quick course. And I've taught about things like MS, and ALS since day ONE. Long before I ever was suspected of HAVING ALS.

Sorry--I'm livid on her behalf. This is, simply put--UNACCEPTABLE. I have no idea what a 'hospitialist' is--I've never heard that term--but it sounds like a nice word for IDIOT to me.
 
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Your experience is shocking & AWEFUL. I am so very sorry. It's obvious that your hospital is not going to be your first port of call.

I am glad you are both as emotionally ready as can be for what lies ahead. Sounds like time to call the hospice. You are going to need some medical backup from somewhere otherwise she could be in a lot of pain.

CO2 build up does just that, progressively builds up & causes blinding headaches as well as sleepiness. If you add oxygen without using a bipap this will make the CO2 build up worse. Your wife will need pain relief as a minimum and may also need other comfort measures depending on what happens within her body as it prepares to shut down.

Thinking of you both & praying you find some useful help.
 
Be sure that it is okay to get an outside referral for hospice. Often, that will stop your VA medical benefits. With the VA system, you usually want to use the palliative care division. They will set up in home care. Your wife shouldn't have to go to the hospital or clinic setting anymore. If you aren't working with the PVA or another service organization, start. They will help you set everything up.
 
Read everything that Notme and Missy just wrote ... read it again...then follow through asap. You should be receiving in home palliative care and emotional support for you NOW. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers today. Take care.
 
She asked you to call HOSPICE. PLEASE do so if you haven't.

The thought of her being in pain is just heartbreaking. I've watched people die from air hunger--and it's not pretty. It's the major fear of people with diseases like COPD and ALS and other diseases that effect the respiratory system. It can be prevented with hospice care. The hospital should have done this for you before she was even released. Please tell me she at least has morphine at home. If she doesn't, DEMAND IT NOW>

I actually forgot you were working with the VA--which probably slows things down--but if she's in the final stages and is truly ready to go--please contact whomever you need to contact--even the ALSA to find out what you can do IMMEDIATELY to make this better for all of you.
 
I hope you can get HELP, SOON! What a nightmare!
 
Thanks, guys. Hospice of the Comforter just came to our house to do the intake interview.

The VA's Home Based Primary Care doctor saw us this morning, and I got the definite impression that they have (mentally) washed their hands of us, and expect hospice/Medicare to pick it up from here.

I AM SO F\/{&|NG TIRED! All the time. Today I cancelled a simple 5 mile trip because I--a 20-year veteran and all-around stoic tough guy--decided that I wouldn't be safe to drive another 10 minutes. Yesterday when the Respiratory Tech was explaining how to use the oxygen compressor, I fell asleep-actually FELL OVER during our conversation and went to sleep.
 
I hope your Hospice team will allow you to get some rest and will help your wife feel comfortable. I will be thinking of y'all..
 
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