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Tripete, We have a large gap in what our individual beliefs are considering "Being Saved". I made a comment in an earlier post in this thread concerning the fact that as sinners who have seen the light and are forgiven.....we should learn how to forgive ourselves. My position is still the same. Reading your text I see a constant under current of, what I can best describe as rage, or hate? It's my position that after being saved, we should express a continence of joy after the weight of our sins where removed from our shoulders. Where is it said that after excepting Jesus Christ ex-sinners are required to assume the job of punishing themselves mentally until called home?

Under that assumption, how could we evangelize? What potential convert would be drawn into a flock of believers who constantly exhibited negative behavior?

In My mind right or wrong.....God is pleased when his earthy children Laugh, and sing and spread goodwill and hope as they Glorify his name. I excepted Jesus into my heart years ago......but it's also my belief that he is much more pleased with my walk now as opposed to then. I will stand before God, Jesus promised me. On that day, I'm doing my best to hear him welcome me as a faithful servant.......Even if God doesn't consider it important......his spirit in my heart sure gives me reason to be joyful.

I pray it's contagious.

May God Bless Us All......................Glenn
 
I must say that my beliefs are more in line with Glenn's. I believe that God does consider us worthy! He would not have sacrificed his Son for unworthy souls. Of course, we are to be contrite when we do wrong and stray from his path. But, our sins are forgiven again and again as long as we accept God's salvation for us. I'm a Christian and my faith is one of joy in Him and my place in the world. God didn't give me ALS! He is there to get me through it. He's not angry when I rail against my reality, he understands my pain and wants to comfort me. I respect all of the differences in our beliefs, but I'm glad that I was raised to love and honor, but not fear our Lord.
Audrey
 
No I do not believe in self punishment. That is unbiblical and is works. The Scriptures do say we are to hate our sin and that this is the result of being saved (see Ezekiel 36). This is biblical and I can show you it repeatedly in Scriptures. Of course we rejoice in the forgiveness we receive -I rejoice greatly because by His mercy I see how much I need forgiveness and how much it has been granted.

I am afraid that our disagreement is an old one. It is the argument between Erasmus and Luther that can be read about in Luther's "Bondage of the Will". It is the argument of Free Will versus Gods Sovereignty. The Judeizers against the Apostle Paul's Teaching.

Being Saved is not an act I participate in, it is God who chooses to save those whom He chooses to save, and He condemns those who He does not choose to save. This is an indisputable fact from the Bible ( I can provide many passages that show this).

The current common view however is that Christ died for everyone in the whole world and that we have a free will that allows us to decide to accept His salvation or not. This is not biblical and cannot be shown from the scriptures. If this where the case then we become the saviors as we are the ones who ultimately decide to be saved and the only difference between me and someone who is not saved is that I am a better judge or picker or chooser. It cannot be Christ work, because according to this doctrine He died for everyone equally so it must be my work.That is pure arrogance. It leaves room for me to boast in my salvation as I am the one who chose to let God into my heart. Choosing to be saved is works and is not the gospel. It is no different than what the apostle Paul warns about in Galatians. Paul tells Timothy that in the later days men will gather to themselves teachers who will preach to them what there itchy ears want to hear, that is that their salvation is up to them.

This is why the common view on sanctification (our christian walk) also becomes about our efforts or our choosing or our will. Instead of a recognition that anything that is good in me comes from Christ and Him crucified.

Regarding evangelism Paul states that he claimed to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified, and he was certainly evangelized. This the message I preach, the words I pray that by Gods grace I speak and the words that God will use to either break the hearts of His people or to harden those who are not His. If salvation and evangelizing is about me being happy or not then it is not about Christ and is not the Gospel that saves. There is no anger, or frustration but joy that the work is of God alone, for if it where of men then it would fail.
 
Jeanau, I am not surprised by your view point. It is the common one in the religious community. Please show me where in the Bible it says that we are considered worth or that His Son died for only worthy souls? Or where our acceptance is what defines our salvation.

If by the statement that He died for Worthy souls you mean the people that Go chose to save the I agree.

I also do not fear the Lord. I am thankful that He is both Just (punishing those who are not His) and the Justifier of men (bringing salvation to who He chooses).

Also answer me this if God is sovereign (in control of all things) then how can we say that He is not the one who gave/allowed us to have ALS? Being all powerful He could easily remove it could He not? Certainly it was by His permission that Job was afflicted? No -I believe God is sovereign and all things are done with in His will -ALS included.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Tripete, Your obviously a very intelligent and well read fella. The kind of a man that can no doubt blow away his peers in debate club. What I'm completely confused about is why are you being so confrontational, here of all places, about such a simple topic. Are you trying to help others? Attacking a beautiful woman like Jeanau concerning her core beliefs in my opinion should be below the moral fiber of a concerned and loving Christian human being.

I don't know this Erassmus guy, or Luther nor have a clue about the Judeizer's point of view....I don't need to. All I need to do is watch a new day dawn over the eastern mountains, look deeply into my grand daughter's sky blue eyes, and wonder at countless other miracles around me to know with all my heart that God is real. The joy he's placed in my heart is nothing I will ever try to hide.

As a brother is Christ I love you. Man to man, you think to much. Like my wonderful Grandfather used to say, "If you can't say something nice, keep it to yourself.

May God Bless Us All.
 
Intelligence has nothing to do with it. The gospel is the most important thing to me and as I believe it is the truth I have worked hard to understand His word and its meaning, if I say it is my life then it should be of equal importance to me. I was not being confrontational just expressing the truth and its encouragement. I did not accuse anyone of being "sad" or "self punishing". I simply explained the truth according to the Scriptures and th eencouragment I find in it as apposed to my own experiences.

Jeanau I did not mean to "attack" you. The truth is to miraculous and wonderful not to clarify. I am sorry if both of you felt attacked.

I would have hoped to have a discussion about the scriptures and the truth in them as it is the most encouraging thing that there is to me.
 
To all -please forgive me for sounding like I was bullying people. That was never my intent. I do believe there is one truth and in my zeal for that I can be over bearing. I will not post in the religious section in the future as it seems it is not loving for me to do so.
 
Pete, please don't feel that you need my forgiveness. I just feel bad that your faith seems to make you feel such shame about yourself. Please don't avoid this section on my account. I'm not threatened by others' opinions... I'm free to accept or reject. God bless us all!
Audrey
 
we all are here and the life that he gave us there is a reason for it. but he only knows. it's not how it was said it's how it is at the end. we all have to have something to look up to.
god is one the other is jane. i don't know what i would do with out her :)
 
Also answer me this if God is sovereign (in control of all things) then how can we say that He is not the one who gave/allowed us to have ALS? Being all powerful He could easily remove it could He not? Certainly it was by His permission that Job was afflicted? No -I believe God is sovereign and all things are done with in His will -ALS included.

God can certainly heal us of ALS, and it is His option to do so, at any time. ( I am open to this!) Jesus healed everyone he met, so His will is to heal us. We can not question why He does not heal unfair diseases. I do not believe God's will is for me to have ALS.

This is a fallen world, and the devil is real. I have witnessed great injustice on this earth. Yet I have seen God work things for good in these situations.

Thy Kingdom come!
 
Pete, I know what you are saying and I don't read hate or shame or trying to pick a fight in your posts, just a man who has submitted himself to the Word, a man whose name was written in the Lamb's book from before the foundation of the world. God's sovereignty in all things is the most important thing we can learn, and the biggest source of comfort and assurance. Praying on you brother. And on all the rest of us here as well.
 
Faith- plus nothing!

Ephesians Ch. 2

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast
.
 
Hello all,
This is an interesting thread. In some way I am grateful for the emotional, spiritual and mental growth I have experienced since my diagnosis. That is not to say if God asked me if I wanted to be healed I would say, "no".

This is where I find myself (with ALS). As I thought about it in the beginning (when I was diagnosed) I could choose one of two attitudes. I could choose to be mad and let it make me miserable. OR I could ask the Lord, "What would You teach me from this and how can I glorify Your name?" People say to me all the time - how brave I am. I'm NOT taking the glory for ANYTHING in my life! I tell them whatever you see in me is because of the Lord's using my circumstances to change me. And I can tell you - there was a LOT of changing that needed to happen, still is.

I find my heart softened (NOT a work of mine). I find lots more love for people. I'd say the Lord is working!

Lynne
 
I consider myself a baby Christian even though I was baptized as an infant in the Catholic Church, and then again as an adult about 10 years ago as an adult consciously giving my life to Christ. Even as a teen I searched for a relationship with Christ going to every Christian church that I had the opportunity to go to. I once sat through a German Lutheran service with a friend and I don't speak a work of German. I continued as a young adult seeking out a Catholic Church in Victoria where I went for my nurses training, and then married and raised my children that way. All the while it seemed like Christ was just out of my grasp, and finally in my mid 30's I gave up and actually turned my back on Christ. When my husband of 23 years decided to leave me I was devastated and broken, brought to my knees. A friend at work asked if she could pray for me and I told her she could do what ever she wanted, that I didn't believe in God and it wouldn't hurt me in the slightest. Just aside; I don't understand why atheists are so threatened by our faith, because if they don't believe in God than there is nothing to worry about.
Well her prayer reached God and he reached out to me, and what I mean by that is that he took me and broke my pride, and remoulded me. I called a friend that I had always admired because of the light that she shone and asked her to meet me at her church. This church had bible studies and I bought my second ever bible and started reading it. My first bible was a King James and I could not understand it, my second and NIV and I began my new relationship with Christ. Another aside: My husband was raised on King James and defends it vehemently, and I am not saying one is better than the other, just that I could understand the NIV better.
I started reading Christian books and always compared quoted scripture with the bible, often finding that the verses had been taken out of context. I developed a passion for reading the bible, and know now why I couldn't seem to "reach" Christ. He had always been there but I needed to read his word to know him.
I am awed every day at Tim's knowledge of the word, and how he wears "his armour" at all times. I am afraid I am unable to memorize scripture, but sure know how to find what I am looking for. That is not to say that I know it all, because there are days, or should I say nights that I have been up in the wee hours of the morning looking for wisdom in the bible.
Lately I have been confronted with my oldest son turning his back on his faith. He is angry about his step father's ALS, and is living his life in a very spiritually unhealthy way. Actually I believe it is unhealthy even if there is no God. He is lashing out at our faith and I believe trying to provoke us, and I took the bait. I have prayed, and spoken to our pastor, several exceptional Christian friends and have settled down a bit. I think that he is fighting God right now even though I believe he was chosen, and it is not sitting well with him. He is 33 and is where I was in my mid to late 30's so I have to continue to pray for him, ask God to break him down as he did with me and be there when he needs me. I hate to think of the pain he is going to have to endure to get there, as I know how dark it will be.
I have been rejected by my earthly father and a husband so trust is hard for me, but Timothy is that light in my life, shining always in Gods direction.

Paulette
 
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