Glutamate vs Gaba

[Shane the Pain]

Hi All:

1. i am not a scientist, a friend of mine is, he was telling me that perhaps taking Gaba supplements may in fact help off set over active glutamates ?

2. there is an article in th LA Times about "familia ALS" and stem cells having a positive impact on the disease ?

would love to hear what ya'll think...

thanks,

Shane

 

[wright]

Hello Shane

1) Glutamate is the major excitatory neurotransmitter (people often refer to neurotransmitters as "chemicals") in the brain and GABA is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter.

Theoretically speaking, if a neuron releases GABA onto a neuron that releases glutamate, it could inhibit the release of glutamate from that neuron. Glutamate excitotoxicity is thought to be a mechanism in ALS.

Having said that: there was a study done back in 2000 that investigated GABAergic drugs (only one that I know of) but there were no follow-up studies. That more than likely means it didn't work. I'll admit that I haven't read the study in a lot of detail, but I will try to find some time in the near future and give you a more informed opinion.


2) Stem cells will more than likely play a big role in curing ALS . . . BUT . . . what stem cells do is more or less take-on the properties of the cells they replace.

What will most likely need to be done before the stem cells work to cure diseases like ALS, is to "fix" the underlying pathology that is causing the motor neurons to die. If not, the stem cells will more than likely just become the same dying cells. The promise is certainly there.

 

[wirky]

to stop motor neurons from dying

Hello Shane

1) Glutamate is the major excitatory neurotransmitter (people often refer to neurotransmitters as "chemicals") in the brain and GABA is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter.

Theoretically speaking, if a neuron releases GABA onto a neuron that releases glutamate, it could inhibit the release of glutamate from that neuron. Glutamate excitotoxicity is thought to be a mechanism in ALS.

Having said that: there was a study done back in 2000 that investigated GABAergic drugs (only one that I know of) but there were no follow-up studies. That more than likely means it didn't work. I'll admit that I haven't read the study in a lot of detail, but I will try to find some time in the near future and give you a more informed opinion.


2) Stem cells will more than likely play a big role in curing ALS . . . BUT . . . what stem cells do is more or less take-on the properties of the cells they replace.

What will most likely need to be done before the stem cells work to cure diseases like ALS, is to "fix" the underlying pathology that is causing the motor neurons to die. If not, the stem cells will more than likely just become the same dying cells. The promise is certainly there.

Right now I don’t know much about GABA however I like the truth and the reality of your comment, where you say “What will most likely need to be done before the stem cells work to cure diseases like ALS, is to "fix" the underlying pathology that is causing the motor neurons to die. If not, the stem cells will more than likely just become the same dying cells.

This is why I am flying the flag for the “brain glutamate scavenger / transporter”.

No matter what opinion any one has on ALS there is hardly any argument from those in the know that Glutamate is involved. This is why the development of glutamate scavengers that will transport excess glutamate from the brain to where it can do no harm is so important.

Possibly it is not a cure but in simple mathematics less glutamate in the brain must mean less excitatory activity and this must go a long way towards slowing down progressions.

Although unlikely, If however it does nothing at all to help ALS then we win anyway. We win because it will simply prove the Glutamate theory wrong and force academia and science to rethink everything. It will also mean that science has wasted and continues to waste time and in the wrong direction.

It’s a win / win situation.

But how can PALS achieve this?

wirky

 

[wright]

Glutamate scavenging could possibly help with slowing-down ALS, but it doesn't fix the problem; it's more like "bailing the boat." What needs to be done is "plug the hole" . . . and plugging the hole entails finding the underlying cause of ALS (i.e. why is so much glutamate being released if that is indeed the cause). Then and only then, can ALS be fixed/cured or prevented.

 

[NeverGiveIn22]

Wright,

Now I'm being told that there are different stem sensors in the body that they are leaning towards to try and fix versus trying to take a long stem cell from the spinal cord down or up to a particular area. This is also the case with the upper motor neuron disorder as well. This was last week from a top notch ALS doctor in the US. He says that both are very promising and likely to be the cure. (His opinion).

Now in my mind, I believe that Heavy Metal Toxins is the main reason for the cause of ALS. I am full of heavy metal toxins in my body. The naturopath who reviewed my hair test said that she closed down her practice to focus solely on hair study and she has yet to treat an ALS patient that does not have heavy metal in their system.

Military personnel, police officers, and many others exposed to these risks seem to be getting diagnosed more frequently. I would say that a hair test is much better at assessing what is truly happening in the body versus a urine or blood test!

Your thoughts?

 

[awakinggiant]

in agreement

I agree about the heavy metals and maybe even other intruders (chemicals, etc) to be the "hole in the boat" that needs plugging. Chelation therapy and MMS is thought to help in these areas though not fast enough in my humble opinion. Unfortunately, time is of the essence. As for GABA inhibiting glutamate, I heard Gaba taken internally doesn;t cross the blood brain barrier so could be worthless, no? Anyway, if it is, hat Neu"rotten" crap they got me on may help afterall I'ma still pop Gaba anyway, makes me feel productive.
Kris

 

[awakinggiant]

Ps

PS stem cells are the answer...answers take tiime to develope, you know.:|

 

[wright]

I'm sorry to tell you this, but hair analysis is completely worthless and has absolutely no scientific validity. The tests themselves are not screened against any type of standard. It is complete fraud, quackery and voodoo at best. Your naturopath is doing nothing more than taking your money. There have actually been lawsuits against those with such practices and those law suits have been won. By the way, if your naturopath wants to come onto this forum and debate me on the matter, I would welcome it.

Blood and urine tests are the standards . . . Proven Standards . . . for evaluation.

Chelation therapy has no scientific validity either and has never helped anyone with ALS. If it did, then every neuro on the planet would be doing it and ALS would have its cure. There was a thread on here not too long ago addressing that issue.

I have never heard of "stem sensors." In what context was that neuro using that term? Could you have misunderstood him/her?

The stem cells proposed to be used for diseases like ALS are those that can differentiate ("turn into") into any type of cell in the body . . . and in simple terms . . . do this when they are physically implanted in the area of interest. It is certainly more complex than that, but that is the general mode of action.

These stem cells are not motor neurons of the spinal cord . . . they are "virgin" cells that again, can become any cell in the body. Once implanted, the axon of the cell would have to grow and project out to the skeletal muscles (if they are implanted in the brainstem and/or spinal cord) or would have to grow and project out to the lower motor neurons (if they are implanted in the cerebral cortex) . . . and that growth rate is about 1 to 2mm per day.

As far as the cause of ALS: no one knows what causes ALS. Heavy metals have been one proposed mechanism, but that is still pure speculation. It is more than likely multifactorial and there is more than likely some type of predisposition for those that unfortunately contract the disease.

Take care.

 

[CindyM]

Well said, Wright. Thanks for clearing things up!

 

[awieleba]

chelation

Is it of the opinion that it does not help als. Does anyone think that it could help detox the body of autoimmune illness or for those that dont have a diagnosed but still have a plethra of symptoms? If my biopsy and next emg are clean, I just dont know where to turn. I had thought of going holestic and cleansing my body. Dr. Oz has alot to say on nutrtion and diseases.

Giant~

do you think they may have GABA in a sub-lingual form for under your tongue. I use to do alot of those when I had the epstein barr virus and got real sick in the past. I felt and was told it worked better as it went right into the blood stream versus the stomach with all its acids.

take care all,

april

 

[wright]

There are absolutely no studies that show chelation therapy works . . . NONE. It's my guess (actually, it's really not a guess) the reason is, that it simply doesn't work . . . and/or the people who peddle such nonsense wouldn't know how to do a scientific study if their lives depended on it.

In regards to "detoxifying the body": there is no such thing as detoxifying the body. We all have a liver and kidneys and they are what detoxify our bodies. Once again, anyone who claims they can "detoxify" the body with some "cleansing formula" is doing nothing more than taking your money.

Nutrition and disease are completely unrelated to "detoxifying the body." Nutrition and exercise certainly play big roles when it comes to many (not all) disease states and changes in lifestyle can certainly lower the chances of getting some (not all) diseases and sometimes even reverse some diseases. Better nutrition along with exercise can slowly change things for the better, but again, it isn't a matter of detoxification . . . it's a matter of creating a better environment for the body. Having said all of that . . . changing one's lifestyle isn't going to reverse ALS, unfortunately. That is in need of a cure to reverse or prevent the disease.

As I had stated in my earlier post: GABA does not appear to do anything for the symptoms of ALS. It probably won't hurt to take it . . . BUT . . . GABA supplements do have some fairly scary side-effects in some people, so make sure you read the disclaimer on the bottle. One more thing: remember that it is a supplement and so it is not regulated by the FDA.

 

[Al]

Thanks wright. I keep telling these people that this stuff doesn't work and they are being scammed. I'm going on what people have told me here and other places. First hand experiences from people who had hope only to have it trashed and then feeling stupid for spending thousands on useless remedies. You provide the scientific side. We're working as a pretty good team.

AL.

 

[wright]

As always Al, I got your back.

You can be Batman . . . and I'll be Robin . . . and together . . . we'll fight these "Jokers" who want to scam people.

I hope all is well with you my friend.

 

[Al]

Not bad. Hands a bit crappier so have to be careful how much wine they put in my glass. LOL.

AL.