Electrical muscle stimulation // TENS

[GregK]

TENS means "Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation".

Using stick-on conductor pads, this 'thingie' delivers mild electric shock to selected muscle groups. Commonly used for pain control.

A bit more scientific than sticking a prod in a frog's brain, but not too far off...

They are also used for building muscle.

My wife has one left over from a pain control session and I have considered hooking it up.

I searched here many months ago and found few positive comments, but most of those were of a theoretical nature and I recall few (if any) from actual users.

Has anyone actually tried this path and if so, what were the results.

 

[MaxEidswick]

I am starting when it comes ...

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[bigmark1954]

TENS means "Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation".

Using stick-on conductor pads, this 'thingie' delivers mild electric shock to selected muscle groups. Commonly used for pain control.

A bit more scientific than sticking a prod in a frog's brain, but not too far off...

They are also used for building muscle.

My wife has one left over from a pain control session and I have considered hooking it up.

I searched here many months ago and found few positive comments, but most of those were of a theoretical nature and I recall few (if any) from actual users.

Has anyone actually tried this path and if so, what were the results.

I have one of these units left over from my rotator cuff repair, that I used to rehab the surgery a few years ago. Every once in a while I will use it on my back....but I have no idea how it would be used for MND application.
Seems like it might actually burn a weakened muscle group?

 

[GregK]

My thinking: our muscles atrophy due to lack of use from lack of stimulation from our dying neurons. If a gentle stimulation can be delivered outside of the neuron pathway using nerves local to the target muscles, mightn't this be a benefit?

The 'twitch' created by the TENS unit is much stronger than a fasic but by no means of the severity of a cramp.

Edit: one earlier discussion (~2012) is here Would a TENS or similar machine assist with muscle retention?

Edit #2: be aware there is a difference between my TENS unit and (hopefully) Max's EMS unit. From Wikipedia:

Today many people confuse TENS with Electro Muscle Stimulation (EMS). EMS and TENS devices look similar, with both using long electric lead wires and electrodes. TENS is for blocking pain, where EMS is for stimulating muscles.​

Edit #3: Be careful Max, you might start to look like the attached!

 

[MaxEidswick]

.>My thinking: our muscles atrophy due to lack of use from lack of stimulation from our dying neurons. If a gentle stimulation can be delivered outside of the neuron pathway using nerves local to the target muscles, mightn't this be a benefit?

my thinking exactly!

> Be careful Max, you might start to look like the attached!

mirror of my buns now! bit more hair will post a photo if Sandy will get me a thong thingy ...

also, seriously see https://www.google.com/webhp?source...&ie=UTF-8#q=electro+muscular+stimulation++als

 

[MaxEidswick]

alstdi 11/2009: http://www.als.net/forum/yaf_postst47806_Electrical-Stimulation.aspx

(2) I found the below abstract, which discusses electrical stimulation used on an ALS patient.

Handa I., Matsu****a N., Ihashi K., Yagi R., Mochizuki R., Mochizuki H., Abe Y., Shiga Y., Hoshimiya N., Itoyama Y., and . (1995) A clinical trial of therapeutic electrical stimulation for amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Tohoku J. Exp. Med. 175, 123-134.
Abstract: This paper describes the effects of therapeutic electrical stimulation (TES) on the wasting muscles in a patient with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. The patient is a 47-year-old male, and he has a history of progressive muscle weakness and atrophy, affected more in the right side. Percutaneously indwelling intramuscular electrodes were implanted to the affected muscles in the right upper and lower extremities but no electrode in the corresponding left region. Within a month of TES therapy, a rapid improvement of extremity motion appeared in the TES treated side. Long-term application of TES more than 3 months increased the strength of the muscle which had been evidently weaker than the non- treated side. CT findings of both the upper and lower extremities with TES therapy showed an increase in the density and a reduction in the moth-eaten image. An increase in the thickness of the muscles was also observed in the TES treated side while deterioration was observed in the muscles on the non-treated side.

 

[bigmark1954]

Greg....do you think it would work on this.......

 

[GregK]

geez, is she shooting a .50cal?

 

[nebrhahe53]

correct me Max if I am wrong but in the cited article these are implanted electrodes, not those placed on top of the skin correct?

 

[bigmark1954]

geez, is she shooting a .50cal?

Yes she is Greg....she like very large things.................

 

[MaxEidswick]

>correct me Max if I am wrong but in the cited article these are implanted electrodes

right, Neil, but I'm hoping the principle is similar ...

 

[krnNdug]

I have a system using interferential current made by RS Medical that contracts the muscles deeply. Here is a line from the web site that says it specifically stimulates muscle activity... "delivers interferential current to relieve pain and muscle stimulation to restore muscle function".

I was given it by RS Medical to be able to work with my back surgeon 10+ years ago. I know it works on a deeper level than a TENS unit. I will give it a try on my legs. Could be interesting...

 

[MaxEidswick]

> I will give it a try on my legs. Could be interesting...

can you still walk? this could be very interesting ...

 

[GregK]

be very careful to not overdo it! If you come back and say "I spent the entire night in severe cramps" it might put a damper on the rest of us...

 

[MaxEidswick]

>be very careful to not overdo it!

right! I'm working up a plan now, should be here tomorrow. will keep a log, too, on the blog.