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so an Update:

My family doctor got me in on an in-call/after hours.

This is what transpired:

he did agree with me that my left arm was smaller at the wrist and at the elbow, and that my hand seemed weak - he measured my wrists and compared - my right wrist was 18.5 cm and my left (my good arm) was 17 cm. So how do you account for a 1.5 cm loss of muscle?

my reflexes were okay, though. so that's a good thing. though as far as my legs go he didn't even take my boots off when he was checking them - seems very unprofessional and rude to me... he's quite the eccentric, so I just go along with it?

anyway. this has caused my Mother to absolutely lose her mind - I tried to tell her it could be many things, I shouldn't have told her that my doctor (looking at me with sad eyes) said, "this definitely doesn't point away from neuro-muscular disease... there's a reason why there's muscle loss. IT'S VITAL I BOOK YOU A NEUROLOGIST APPOINTMENT"

so...


what now?

I'm losing my mind. I just turned 25, and this? no way.

P.S. - wouldn't you feel fasciculations in your wrist, hand whatever if you had muscle loss there - b/c those are the places I don't really get them?

my left arm and left leg feel so weak. it's a constant reminder that I have this disease at such a young age. I'm at a loss for words, I just want to numb this with alcohol, but what good will that do just to mask it...
 
has there ever been a time when fascic's and muscle loss have occured abnd it wasn't als?

look, I'm a good person. I'm not trying to make my problems seem bigger than any body elses's... but when your GP tells you that you have muscle loss and he even LOOKS SAD... I feel like this is something that will kill me inside... waiting maybe 2-3 months for a Neuro is like the most torturous thing in the world...
i love all of you. just remember that.

I don't understand "God's Plan" because is there really one? why are my muscles depleting at this age... I'm cryign right now as i type this... i feel helpless
 
Tiggerlenses, i am very sorry you are going threw this. But from what everyone has told me on this site because i indeed im 22 and worrying about ALS, ALS is rare and you being 25 age is on your side. There is a multiple number of things, i cant name them but i know there is a multiple number of things before ALS trust me. Id make an appointment with a neuro have him check you so you can have a piece of mind. I too check and re check my body and worry, which makes it worse. I know its tuff but hang strong, everyone on here will help, try not to jump off the boat and diagnose your self with ALS. I am trying not to do that as well, even though are symptoms are different, we still fear the samething.
 
Tigger ... I'm so sorry you're going through this anxiety and worry. Waiting for answers is the worst part.

It doesn't sound like ALS to me. I don't think the fact that your doctor has "sad eyes" or a sad expression means anything. He probably looks that way all the time. Honestly ... when the neuro diagnosed me, he was almost gleeful.

I also don't get his measuring one wrist against another in size. That doesn't tell you anything about atrophy, because both sides of our bodies are different. So those measurements would not tell you that either side was actually losing girth ... only that one side is a little different. Who knows what size they both were six months ago? I don't know anything about medicine, but I know a little anatomy from art school, and if you actually drew someone who was identical on both sides, they probably wouldn't look human.

Get a neuro's opinion so that you can put this behind you and get back to your real life.

Good luck.
 
TiggerLenses,

I'm sorry you had a rough day at the doctor. It seems clear you next step is a neurologist. Maybe your GP can get you in promptly based on his findings. I think Beth is right. It's too soon to draw any conclusions, and sad eyes might be part of your doctor's bedside manner.

Keep in mind that neuromuscular disease is a actually family of diseases, many of which are readily treatable, and does not equal motor neuron disease (ALS). In that context your doctor's comment and emphasis might be more geared towards, "You need to see a neurologist because this is not my area of expertise and there's not much I can do to help you."

The neurologist will probably want to perform a nerve conduction study including an EMG. The data from these tests as well as others will help point you in the right direction towards getting to the bottom of what ails you.

There are many illnesses or disorders that can cause weakness and atrophy, among them are trapped nerves, different flavors of neuropathy (including Multi-focal motor neuropathy, and Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy ), other types of auto-immune disorders, etc... Many of these disorders are manageable or treatable.

Don't give up hope quite yet.

Best wishes,

Robert
 
Thanks, Guys. You are really special, positive people.

But BethU, I'm just curios. How don't my problems sound like ALS? Really weak, stiff hand (really stiff), that's hard to contract (it's like the hand of an 80 year old, not a 25 year old - no offence to anybody on here!) - fasciculations - weak elbow - muscle loss -

Because I'm losin' it. Regardless of other things in my life right now, I want the Brass Tax as far as this situation. Really don't think it sounds like ALS?

I hope my Neuro agrees. I bet you she will. I definitely have something serious going on, but doesn't necessarily mean ALS - but it's definitely what I fear most, and it doesn't look the best in terms of that right now!

I think the 1 thing I have going for me, it's that the fasciculations in one area are hardly there anymore - but maybe that means the muscle is deteriorating?

I'm in a bad place.

But I'm thinkin' as positive as possible, people. I hope I have much life to live!
 
Hi again ...

The stiff hand doesn't sound like ALS. At least, I've never heard any PALS complain of stiffness. (You understand I have no medical training, and only know from my own experiences and reading forums like this.) Anyway, stiffness = so far as I know, not ALS.

You don't have any proven muscle loss. All you know is that one wrist is smaller than the other, and it's probably been that way forever.. (I assume you know the general guideline that one foot is usually a half size larger than the other, so you always try on shoes on the larger foot.)

And what you're saying is simply "wrong" for how ALS presents itself. It doesn't start with big/little twitches in various parts of the body. Twitches are MINOR issues in ALS. In fact, they're not issues at all. ALS starts with some kind of weakness, and it is not noticed by "testing" or observing one's body or feeling twitches. One day, you get up and you can't lift something that you've always lifted easily before. Or your speech is slurred ... you don't notice it, but people you talk to do.

You say you are "going through a horrible personal problem right now." There's your answer.

Since I've been visiting this forum (since last May), there have been dozens of people going through a crisis or major changes in their lives, and they are stressed to the max, and their anxiety brings on benign fasics which scares them, then they Google and discover ALS and their anxiety goes through the roof and the physical symptoms get worse and worse. I think this is called "displacement" ... your body has to relieve its stress somehow and if you don't resolve the personal problem, it comes out as twitches. Finding a fatal, uncurable disease to worry about takes your mind off your really horrible personal problem.

I'll bet you $5 that when you resolve the horrible personal problem, your anxiety will go away and will take these uncomfortable symptoms with them.

Hope you get your answer soon. I'll take a check when you pay the $5.
 
thanks Bethu, isle667, and planningguy!

I do notice when I look at my feet - on the inside, just below the ankle - there are constant fasciculations - I can see them and the muscle is contracting, and I can only feel them when I press in my muscle - constantly - what is going on?!

and BethU, while I completely understand what you're saying about stress/anxiety leading to fascic's, weakness etc. - this all started way before my personal problem arrived (less than a week ago) - it all started nearly 9 months ago... weakness, fascic's - and now what my doctor referred to as "muscle loss"...

anyway, like I said, these twitches on my foot just below my ankle are constant - i never even noticed before 'til I looked - I even showed my Mother - it's just a constant fascic, but can't be felt unless touched...
it's making me mad...

and my doc went 4 inches up my arm from my wrist to make sure it wasn't affected by the "boney area" i.e. - the wrist bone... and there's a 1.5 cm discrepancy...
also the fascic's seem to be moving down my limb now - it seems very uniform, not sporadic. started at my shoulder, then more in my bicep, then more at the shoulder - now only at the shoulder...

before above the knee, now always at the ankle...

ugh. this ain't lookin' hopeful.
 
come on tigger,
what do you mean "this ain't lookin' hopeful"?

Are you kidding me? Sometimes hope is the only reason many people make it thru another day! Why do you think ALS has to be a death sentence?

I do not mean any harm, but please, please, get your appt with a neuro, and relax a bit. Anxiety can make a person crazy,
just relax,
-b
 
HI Tigger~

I really feel for you right now, I know that this is a scary time. First, what is 'brass tax'? Maybe I am getting to old at 36 to understand lingo.
I would hold onto the fact that you have some muscle loss in that arm and your reflexes are normal, that is good. I *think* (someone correct me if I am wrong) that when you have atrophy/muscle loss that if it is als that your reflexes will be hyper?( I know that you can have hpyer flexes/atrophy and it not be also too.) Just hold on till you get your emg, and make sure that the neuro you see is an als neuro. I would not waste my time with a regular neuro if you are this anxious. About your normal doc, Iwould not worry about his 'sad eyes', I have a pc that is like that with me, I think it is a general caring not sadness. Also, they dont see what you present with alot, and the neuro's do.

Take care

peace to you!

april
 
It was completely irresponsible for your physician to say that your "smaller wrist" did not point away from MND. It doesn't point away from a slipped disc, a pinched nerve, a virus, an autoimmune problem etc., etc . . . and hell . . . even cancer (your symptoms don't sound like cancer, I just mentioned that to make a point that he has absolutely NO IDEA what could be causing your symptoms). Did he mention any of those? If not (minus the cancer) . . . he should have.

As Beth said, there are very few people on this planet that are completely symmetrical, with even 10% differences between one side of the body and the other being deemed normal. Stop trying to diagnose yourself with a worst case scenario, because there are a gazillion things that could be causing your symptoms.

Just as a further note: your symptoms don't sound like ALS to me (plus you definitely have age on your side) but you're not going to know anything until you are evaluated by a good neuro. Go tell your mother that there is no need to panic and do your best to have a relaxing weekend.
 
April ... First, what is 'brass tax'? I think he meant brass tacks, as in "Let's get down to the brass tacks." Like, "the real nitty gritty."
 
yes "brass tacks" indeed.

well, I noticed my left arm was weakening a long time ago - now my hand is very weak... so it's not just the perceived atrophy, it's unexplained arm/especially hand weakness (opening and straightening my fingers on this hand is a real task...that really worried my doc too) - and my tricep/elbow area is thinner too - -the muscle part - so I don't know if that plays into the "both sides aren't completely symmetrical" argument, or there's something legit wrong... this is just crazy - I would have never expected this. And yes, statistically speaking I have age on my side, but then again it does happen to people, especially men, in their 20's - from what I've read (though you can't always trust what you read on the net - look what it's got me into now! - it's becoming a bigger problem, or perceived to be a bigger one anyway...)

also when I look at the area just below my inner ankle, it's a constant twitch that I can't really feel but you can DEFINITELY see - at first I thought nah maybe it's just a pulse - upon closer inspection it's without a doubt a twitch - same thing on the other foot... but actually this could be nothing big, so I'm not gonna sweat it - it's just really strange?

this situation is scary only because I have to wait a while to see the Neuro. and No, my Neuro is not an ALS Specialist...hopefully she can still put my mind at ease.

I still don't understand how this doesn't sound like ALS is a big possibility, but...

I really, really do apprecaite the responses. So Much. You guys are awesome.
 
'brass tacks', never heard that one before, oh the things you can learn on the internet! LOL

Tiger, I do think that something is going on and you should see a nuero but It does not mean that als is or could be the only reason for that. There are alot of things that have not even been looked at here. There are people that have had soooooo many sx that are so inline with als and SURE that they had it, but did not. With that being said, I understand why you think this and I dont think that you are being irrational at all....but you may find that this is something treatable. Just stay calm untill you have seen a nuero and tests.

Honestly, most of us on here think or are concerned that we have mnd or something really funky going on. I have had real sx as well for a year and every test with no diagnosed yet, so hang in there.

peace to you tiger

april
 
TiggerLenses,

Please don't think we are blowing smoke at you. The people who have posted on this thread (including people diagnosed with ALS and an individual who teaches college level medical classes) say it doesn't sound like ALS, because to them it doesn't sound like ALS. Keeping in mind no one here can diagnose you, your neuro visit will tell you a lot more. Do your best to relax in the meantime.

In the end it comes down to probability. Rather than focus on the rarest of things that could be causing your symptoms, think about the much more likely common causes. Better yet, try not to think about it at all.

Take care,

Robert
 
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