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Assisted Suicide

I realize this is a very touchy subject for many and capable of much debate.

I am currently working on a Composition paper arguing for Assisted Suicide (please do not let my views change your initial answer). If you have the time, I would love to hear from you/have you answer these questions for me:

1. As someone with ALS, has this affected your view on the subject?
2. Do you believe Assisted Suicide should be legal? Why or why not?
3. What guidelines should there be for Assisted Suicide?
4. Have you every thought about using Assisted Suicide? (please do not answer this if you do not feel comfortable sharing that with me or publishing in my paper)
5. What's the pros of AS? The cons?


If you would prefer not to post your answers here, please PM me.

I am definitely not looking for you to answer all of them- only those that you feel comfortable telling me about!
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

My wife has ALS and is now in critical condition. I m her caregiver from the beginning and this difficult road we took together have changed my view on many things including euthanasia. I can only speak about ALS and I know my point of view could be different with other experiences. One main think I learned is “you can not have definitive answer on the subject”.

After learning what kind of awful disease it is, I thought “with this condition, at some point, I would surely think of suicide” (I kept it for myself). I know my wife thought of something like that too. She kept it for herself for some time but eventually talked about it and finally asked for it. Now, I would not even think of it.

I think managing ALS is mainly about adaptation and humans have a real talent for adaptation. We were doing quite well as long as we were able to adapt to the disease. Surely some major turns were really hard on us like the wheelchair for example. But once you get the wheelchair, you begin to see it as the only way you can keep some mobility so you begin to like it. As long as we were able to adapt, we were quite happy I would say (Not all time, but who’s happy all time). Things began to go wrong few months ago when something broke. I don’t know really what is was but we were no longer able to adapt and my wife’s condition began to deteriorate at an accelerated rate.

This was at this time she began to asks for suicide. This was really dark times for us. At some point, situation went so bad she could not stay at home and she went to palliative care at the hospital. Since she is there, things continues to deteriorate on a physical point of view. Obviously the disease continues to kick hard. On the other hand, situation really improved on every other side. With proper medications for stress and pain we are now able to have few good moments for us. We know this will end badly but those moments are priceless.

She is still saying she does not want to live anymore. But on the other hand, she is fighting really hard not to leave. Since she is in the hospital, she overcame several acute respiratory decompensations all by herself. Medical team explained to me in palliative care, patients often ask for help to go but this is more a distress call than a request. In this kind of situation, when someone really wants to die, he does not fight and just die.

For the close ones like me this is also really hard. Seeing her like that on bad days is excruciating. Sometimes, I even wish this is over. But, when she is well enough to really be with me, this is priceless. When she have acute respiratory problems, things look really awful from an external point of view. But this is only what we feel, not her. She told me those episodes are not painful nor stressful at all for her, the medications are really effective managing those symptoms.

From my experience, I think assisted suicide is not the solution. End stage ALS can be managed by proper care and medications. I live in France and I like the french law position on the subject. Assisted suicide is forbidden. But, in a palliative care perspective, medical teams can use medication to control stress and pain, in accordance to the patient’s wishes, even if this medication presents life threatening risks.

Palliative care is an ethical dilemma by itself and such subject is usually not managed very well by laws. Humans are not painted in black and white but with many shades of gray. One can want two things at once really often and asking for one things does not mean we do not want something else. My wife does not want to continue living like that but she does not want to die. I want this suffering to be over but I don’t want her to die either. My wife is asking to die but acts at the opposite… How can you be able to put in place a law suitable to manage such complex situations?
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

I agree totaly with what fba has written my brother who passed at 41 in 2000 felt the same way as this mans wife. when he would say he wanted to pass in a short time he would want to live. i was very confused and would just try to wait it out before adding to his comment. he would have dreams of getting better allthough i would see no hope. i hate to be selfish but i wanted him to stay as long as he could cause i love him alot. the disease takes them fairly quickly as it is. medication and precious moments are the best way to handle it as there are no easy answers.
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

We can do it for cats and dogs,why not for ourself.I think it is up to the sick person,if no cure around the corner.I watched my bride suffer so much, we had been married for 45 years.I would ask myself,why does she have to go through this,we new she was on her way to heaven,finally Hospice brought her home,it was her choice and she passed in peace with her family at her side.Now I have this wonderful ALS,and know some day It will be my choice.
Do me a favor,bring the paper to court when your done with it.
Hugs Ken
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

right now I can't see myself being able to endure the final stages so whilst i am capable getting the necessary nembutal while i can so it's there IF I want to end under my terms.
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

Hello: Yes I believe in AS, but only if the person has requested it while in sound mind in a legal Living Will document, which has been wittnessed by a lawyer and a family member. My husband died in 1999, as a suicide because he was unable to get enough pain management; he did not have a diagnoses. He had been ill for 6 years and was at the point where he was then unable to care for himself. He asked me if I would help him die, so that he could live longer. We had 2 teenage sons and that was a risk I could not take. So he died of carbon monoxide poisoning. He did wake me the night he died to say goodbye. He needed to find a place of peace and he did. I now have an undiagnosed disease which resembles ALS- I will not ask for anyone to help me but if I get to the point that I am no longer able to cope I will commit suicide as well. Karin
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

If you have to have assistance, is it really suicide? And what leads anyone to conclude that he or she has the right to ask another person to commit an act that, outside the context of terminal illness, would be investigated and prosecuted as homicide? And is that assistance to be made voluntary on the part of the assisting person, or is it to be a legal obligation on their part? How would you feel about being cared for in a facility that participates in these procedures, knowing that you may be being cared for by someone who has decided for himself or herself that, in some cases, there is nothing wrong with putting a fatal overdose of a drug in a helpless patient's IV?

I contend that "assisted suicide" is a deliberate misnomer to avoid calling it what it really is -- voluntary euthanasia. We even compare assisted suicide to putting a beloved pet to sleep -- which from the pet's perspective, is simply involuntary euthanasia. And, if we have to deceive ourselves at the trivial level by giving it a non-threatening, yet misleading name, aren't we just trying to fool ourselves into turning a blind eye to what we know in our guts is an immoral act?

That which is voluntary today can easily made compulsory tomorrow. Once you've crossed the ethical/moral bridge, extension beyond where we are comfortable becomes simply a matter of politics.

Just some food for thought.
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

Hope this isn't going to turn into a peein contest. If it does I might have to euthanise the thread.

AL.
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

trfogey-
with all due respect, I think you are arguing something that has no right answer. Kinda like arguing about 'quality of life'. We all have our opinions about what is acceptable, and because it is all a matter of perspective, we are all right.
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

As with most difficult things in life, you never have to deal with it until you have to deal with it. ALS is so devastating, so horribly cruel in the manner which someone dies (which has been described as being "buried alive") I completely understand why someone would want assistance with their own suicide. My father has the disease and he has a very poor quality of life, in my opinion, even though he lives with me and I take care of him very well. It is amazing the power of the human spirit to want to survive. I think assisted suicide would be difficult to manage in today's society. Because these patients often can no longer speak for themselves, the decision to end ones life may fall into the hands of family or a power of attorney, leading to a very slippery slope. As with most large, complex subjects, there is no easy answer.
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

trfogey-
with all due respect, I think you are arguing something that has no right answer. Kinda like arguing about 'quality of life'. We all have our opinions about what is acceptable, and because it is all a matter of perspective, we are all right.

mrsack,

With equally due respect, human society decided a long time ago that causing the death of another human being is an act worthy of the highest level of scrutiny and, if found to be unjustified, worthy of severe punishment. So, therefore, not all differing opinions on these types of issues are "right", regardless of perspective. You and I might disagree about where the lines should be drawn and how detailed the scrutiny should be, but I think that we agree that some lines and scrutiny are appropriate.

Historically, taking actions which cause the death of another person have been examined with a skeptical perspective -- that actions which cause the death of another person should be avoided even if it puts the actor at personal risk, unless the actor is acting with the authority of the state to protect other people. We distinguish between the intentional and the accidental and between the aggressive and the defensive, but, for the most part, it is a generally accepted principle of modern society that it is presumptively wrong to cause the death of another person, either directly or indirectly.

By introducing a second person into the act of suicide, we fundamentally change its character, and, therefore, the lines that we currently have in place to circumscribe the acceptable bounds of suicide need to be redrawn. Thus, we must argue the issue before a solution is imposed upon us by others who may have motives and agendas of their own.

Regards,TR
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

I like your view points, Tr! (had to say that before the thread is euthanized!)
 
My mom asked me early on and I said I couldn't but her boyfriend said he would.He's dead now too and if he did it doesn't bother me she was suffering.
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

if we did not put a beloved pet to sleep who was suffering would that not be cruel?
are we not more valuable than mere animals and deserve a dignified peacefull death?
having personally witnessed 2 deaths in my family the past year i saw first hand the increasing amounts of morphine being used to keep them sedated and peacefull......................so,dont doctors giving large doses of morphine to help a patient which speeds up the process in the final stages count as assisted suicide? i think so.
assisted suicide is already being practiced everywhere but its not labeled as so so thats ok.

i have watched the program on dignitas and found it very informing.
only terminal people are excepted and they have to go through rigorous counsiling before hand.

i was brought up a strict christian were suicide is referred to as a sin but that depends on the circumstances.
suicide is a sin if the person is healthy in mind and body.
if a person is so depressed to cause mental dysfunction and attempt suicide in gods eyes its not a sin because it was sickness that caused it.
therefore i feel if the god who loves us and does not want to see us suffer see's a terminaly ill person helped a little quicker to find peace he does not regard it as a sin.

fogey do not reply to my post if its negative
 
Re: Assisted Suicide

olly- i think you are right when you say that Drs are doing it all the time, just arent calling it AS. this is very true. If they know that a patient is going to pass soon, and there is no chance of recovery, morphine is given for pain management- but at doses that compromise the patients breathing. Helps to ease it along... death that is.
the sad thing is, people can go back and forth on this subject until blue in the face and both sides will have good points. i think it should be a case by case thing.
 
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