Aluminum Toxicity and ALS?
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patricia1
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yOUR NOT MAKING SENSE! Your getting all worked up over nothing. Whatever is going on with you should be addressed but I dont think your symptoms are from antacids.
Wright told you there is no proof that aluminum causes ALS Why do you keep saying the same thing over and over Instead why dont you concentrate on whats really your problem.
Pat 1
Wright told you there is no proof that aluminum causes ALS Why do you keep saying the same thing over and over Instead why dont you concentrate on whats really your problem.
Pat 1
ZenArcher
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I didn't realize we were suddenly discounting the mouse model in neurological testing but here are a few more.
Metabolism and possible health effects of aluminum.
P O Ganrot
Abstract
Literature regarding the biochemistry of aluminum and eight similar ions is reviewed. Close and hitherto unknown similarities were found. A hypothetical model is presented for the metabolism, based on documented direct observations of Al3+ and analogies from other ions. Main characteristics are low intestinal absorption, rapid urinary excretion, and slow tissue uptake, mostly in skeleton and reticuloendothelial cells. Intracellular Al3+ is probably first confined in the lysosomes but then slowly accumulates in the cell nucleus and chromatin. Large, long-lived cells, e.g., neurons, may be the most liable to this accumulation. In heterochromatin, Al3+ levels can be found comparable to those used in leather tannage. It is proposed that an accumulation may take place at a subcellular level without any significant increase in the corresponding tissue concentration. The possible effects of this accumulation are discussed. As Al3+ is neurotoxic, the brain metabolism is most interesting. The normal and the lethally toxic brain levels of Al3+ are well documented and differ only by a factor of 3-10. The normal brain uptake of Al3+ is estimated from data on intestinal uptake of Al3+ and brain uptake of radionuclides of similar ions administered intravenously. The uptake is very slow, 1 mg in 36 years, and is consistent with an assumption that Al3+ taken up by the brain cannot be eliminated and is therefore accumulated. The possibility that Al3+ may cause or contribute to some specific diseases, most of them related to aging, is discussed with the proposed metabolic picture in mind.
Motor neuron disease and trace element toxicity
Michael J. Strong 1 2 *, Beiping He 1
1The John P. Robarts Research Institute, University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada
2Department of Clinical Neurological Sciences, University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada
Abstract
There is a significant degree of overlap between the clinical syndromes of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) and chronic AlCl3 neurotoxicity. Although there is little, if any, significant overlap with acute AlCl3 neurotoxicity, these latter studies are of importance in demonstrating that an exogenously administered neurotoxin can induce a posttranslational modification in neurofilament, sufficient to bring about neurofilamentous inclusions. The value in the study of chronic AlCl3 neurotoxicity is in the recapitulation of neuronal damage resembling that of ALS and the observations that suggest that the potential for recovery from the neuronal injury can be mediated by microglia. Studies are currently in progress to further define this potential.
Effects of aluminum on the nervous system and its possible link with neurodegenerative diseases.
Kawahara M.
Department of Analytical Chemistry, School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kyushu University of Health and Welfare, Nobeoka-city, Miyazaki, 882-8508
Aluminum is environmentally abundant, but not an essential element. Aluminum has been associated with several neurodegenerative diseases, such as dialysis encephalopathy, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and Parkinsonism dementia in the Kii peninsula and Guam, and in particular, Alzheimer's disease. Although this association remains controversial, there is increasing evidence which suggests the implication of metal homeostasis in the pathogenesis of Alzheimer's disease. Aluminum, zinc, copper, and iron cause the conformational changes of Alzheimer's amyloid-beta protein. Al causes the accumulation of tau protein and amyloid-beta protein in experimental animals. Aluminum induces neuronal apoptosis in vivo as well as in vitro. Furthermore, a relationship between aluminum and the iron-homeostasis or calcium-homeostasis has been suggested. Based on these findings, the characteristics of aluminum neurotoxicity are reviewed, and the potential link between aluminum and neurodegenerative diseases is reconsidered.
Metabolism and possible health effects of aluminum.
P O Ganrot
Abstract
Literature regarding the biochemistry of aluminum and eight similar ions is reviewed. Close and hitherto unknown similarities were found. A hypothetical model is presented for the metabolism, based on documented direct observations of Al3+ and analogies from other ions. Main characteristics are low intestinal absorption, rapid urinary excretion, and slow tissue uptake, mostly in skeleton and reticuloendothelial cells. Intracellular Al3+ is probably first confined in the lysosomes but then slowly accumulates in the cell nucleus and chromatin. Large, long-lived cells, e.g., neurons, may be the most liable to this accumulation. In heterochromatin, Al3+ levels can be found comparable to those used in leather tannage. It is proposed that an accumulation may take place at a subcellular level without any significant increase in the corresponding tissue concentration. The possible effects of this accumulation are discussed. As Al3+ is neurotoxic, the brain metabolism is most interesting. The normal and the lethally toxic brain levels of Al3+ are well documented and differ only by a factor of 3-10. The normal brain uptake of Al3+ is estimated from data on intestinal uptake of Al3+ and brain uptake of radionuclides of similar ions administered intravenously. The uptake is very slow, 1 mg in 36 years, and is consistent with an assumption that Al3+ taken up by the brain cannot be eliminated and is therefore accumulated. The possibility that Al3+ may cause or contribute to some specific diseases, most of them related to aging, is discussed with the proposed metabolic picture in mind.
Motor neuron disease and trace element toxicity
Michael J. Strong 1 2 *, Beiping He 1
1The John P. Robarts Research Institute, University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada
2Department of Clinical Neurological Sciences, University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario, Canada
Abstract
There is a significant degree of overlap between the clinical syndromes of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) and chronic AlCl3 neurotoxicity. Although there is little, if any, significant overlap with acute AlCl3 neurotoxicity, these latter studies are of importance in demonstrating that an exogenously administered neurotoxin can induce a posttranslational modification in neurofilament, sufficient to bring about neurofilamentous inclusions. The value in the study of chronic AlCl3 neurotoxicity is in the recapitulation of neuronal damage resembling that of ALS and the observations that suggest that the potential for recovery from the neuronal injury can be mediated by microglia. Studies are currently in progress to further define this potential.
Effects of aluminum on the nervous system and its possible link with neurodegenerative diseases.
Kawahara M.
Department of Analytical Chemistry, School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kyushu University of Health and Welfare, Nobeoka-city, Miyazaki, 882-8508
Aluminum is environmentally abundant, but not an essential element. Aluminum has been associated with several neurodegenerative diseases, such as dialysis encephalopathy, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and Parkinsonism dementia in the Kii peninsula and Guam, and in particular, Alzheimer's disease. Although this association remains controversial, there is increasing evidence which suggests the implication of metal homeostasis in the pathogenesis of Alzheimer's disease. Aluminum, zinc, copper, and iron cause the conformational changes of Alzheimer's amyloid-beta protein. Al causes the accumulation of tau protein and amyloid-beta protein in experimental animals. Aluminum induces neuronal apoptosis in vivo as well as in vitro. Furthermore, a relationship between aluminum and the iron-homeostasis or calcium-homeostasis has been suggested. Based on these findings, the characteristics of aluminum neurotoxicity are reviewed, and the potential link between aluminum and neurodegenerative diseases is reconsidered.
Patricia,
Maybe because what I have read has me concerned. Zen's post is another one to concern me. I respect Wright's opinion. He has a lot of good insight and is knowledgeable. I don't need to be yelled at by you though. I am simply trying to get better myself while looking out for others.
Maybe because what I have read has me concerned. Zen's post is another one to concern me. I respect Wright's opinion. He has a lot of good insight and is knowledgeable. I don't need to be yelled at by you though. I am simply trying to get better myself while looking out for others.
wright
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Hey SJ71
I'm sorry you got offended. I don't want you to worry about that study. It is interesting and compelling, but it still doesn't prove a thing. I'm going to read it and see if I can find anything else out there and let you know. In the meantime, try to relax. You haven't been diagnosed with ALS and in my opinion, your symptoms don't sound very "ALS-like"
Take care of yourself.
P.S. You never answered my string of questions, by the way.
I'm sorry you got offended. I don't want you to worry about that study. It is interesting and compelling, but it still doesn't prove a thing. I'm going to read it and see if I can find anything else out there and let you know. In the meantime, try to relax. You haven't been diagnosed with ALS and in my opinion, your symptoms don't sound very "ALS-like"
Take care of yourself.
P.S. You never answered my string of questions, by the way.
Wright,
Thanks for responding. To answer your questions:
Do you have any atrophy?
I seem to be getting some, yes. My hands definitely look different and skinnier.
Do you have any weakness besides fatigue?
I don't seem as strong and I get now more muscle tightening in my arms as of about 2 weeks ago for the 1st time.
Do you have any new symptoms?
I have muscle twitches now and didnt before. It started with my calves and has progressed to my knees and arms.
Have you had an EMG? Are you diagnosed with anything?
I haven't been diagnosed with anything yet as I have gotten worse I have been very scared and have not gone back for EMG. Just flat out too scared and upset. I feel I have it and unfortunately is a disease that if you get to it quickly it will make a difference.
This just all seems so surreal.
Thanks for responding. To answer your questions:
Do you have any atrophy?
I seem to be getting some, yes. My hands definitely look different and skinnier.
Do you have any weakness besides fatigue?
I don't seem as strong and I get now more muscle tightening in my arms as of about 2 weeks ago for the 1st time.
Do you have any new symptoms?
I have muscle twitches now and didnt before. It started with my calves and has progressed to my knees and arms.
Have you had an EMG? Are you diagnosed with anything?
I haven't been diagnosed with anything yet as I have gotten worse I have been very scared and have not gone back for EMG. Just flat out too scared and upset. I feel I have it and unfortunately is a disease that if you get to it quickly it will make a difference.
This just all seems so surreal.
ZenArcher
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You can hang out here telling us your symptoms and theorizing that the antacid was responsible all the time scaring yourself or you can get to a qualified professional who will more than likely tell you that you're fine.
I posted those studies simply as facts because I believe it is best to be informed properly before making a decision. Don't take those studies out of context and use them to fuel your own paranoia. If you think something is wrong go to a doctor not an internet forum.
I posted those studies simply as facts because I believe it is best to be informed properly before making a decision. Don't take those studies out of context and use them to fuel your own paranoia. If you think something is wrong go to a doctor not an internet forum.
wright
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We can't diagnose you on here; all we can do is give you advice and the advice you have been given by everyone is to get to a neuro and let them figure-out what is wrong with you AND that your symptoms don't sound like your typical ALS symptoms. Your symptoms can be due to about a gazillion things, almost all of them treatable. Not going to the neuro isn't going to help your situation; it's only going to make it worse because you will . . . and it appears you already have . . . diagnose yourself.
As I said and as Jeff said, the studies don't prove a thing. They were done to test a theory and now further studies need to be done. NO ONE knows what causes ALS. There are A LOT of theories out there which is why the research is ongoing.
As I said and as Jeff said, the studies don't prove a thing. They were done to test a theory and now further studies need to be done. NO ONE knows what causes ALS. There are A LOT of theories out there which is why the research is ongoing.
awieleba
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I am not sure, i was wondering about aluminum. MY grandfather passed away from alzhiemers. he was in the army, he had a drinking problem and drank nonstop from cans. i always have stayed away from cans. BUT, about the toxin mercury, that has left me wondering. I live in fear of vaccinating my children! They so there is no link, but the parents of autisic kids beg to differ.
my symptoms could have been around and i did not notice them, due to being pregant. ( i did have a difficult time at end with breathing and severe weakness).
ALL the symptoms I noticed happen after I got the flu shot. I am not saying the flu shot gives you als. But, for me that is when things started happening. I have always made sure that my kids had thimersal (sp)/mercury free vaccines. I would make them show me the bottle! Then my sister who is nurse, told me that the only vaccine that still has mercury/thimersal is the flu shot! And, since I just had a major operation (c-section) and the baby my immune system was weakend and I should not have gotten a vaccine. They advise there patients (knee surgeon) not to have vaccines after surgery.
I was upset, it may have nothing to do with it, but i got that shot to stay healthy for the baby and instead it all went sooo bad! I got the c-diff, pnuemonia, pluresy, yadda-yadda-yadda (shout out to sienfeld)
So I am a little suspect about the shot and MY immune system and succeptable.
my symptoms could have been around and i did not notice them, due to being pregant. ( i did have a difficult time at end with breathing and severe weakness).
ALL the symptoms I noticed happen after I got the flu shot. I am not saying the flu shot gives you als. But, for me that is when things started happening. I have always made sure that my kids had thimersal (sp)/mercury free vaccines. I would make them show me the bottle! Then my sister who is nurse, told me that the only vaccine that still has mercury/thimersal is the flu shot! And, since I just had a major operation (c-section) and the baby my immune system was weakend and I should not have gotten a vaccine. They advise there patients (knee surgeon) not to have vaccines after surgery.
I was upset, it may have nothing to do with it, but i got that shot to stay healthy for the baby and instead it all went sooo bad! I got the c-diff, pnuemonia, pluresy, yadda-yadda-yadda (shout out to sienfeld)
So I am a little suspect about the shot and MY immune system and succeptable.
wright
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As I said to you in your original post: the autoimmune query needs to be further investigated. Autoimmune disorders are known to come about for no apparent reason, or after a virus or after vaccinations or after . . . etc., etc. You said your symptoms presented after your flu shot, which would point in that direction.
Blood work can be "clean" with autoimmune disorders and so can spinal fluid and so can so many tests, which is why many times, they are idiopathic (that is, cause unkown).
Don't diagnose yourself with something like ALS, especially when there is absolutely no evidence you have it . . . and from what I recall, you had a clean EMG with supposed lower motor neuron symptoms . . . and furthermore, you were cleared by an ALS specialist. Stop talking yourself into this dreaded disease.
Blood work can be "clean" with autoimmune disorders and so can spinal fluid and so can so many tests, which is why many times, they are idiopathic (that is, cause unkown).
Don't diagnose yourself with something like ALS, especially when there is absolutely no evidence you have it . . . and from what I recall, you had a clean EMG with supposed lower motor neuron symptoms . . . and furthermore, you were cleared by an ALS specialist. Stop talking yourself into this dreaded disease.
awieleba
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wright
Yes, I am hoping that it is autoimmune in nature! And I do thank you for replying. The only thing that keeps me stuck is the fact that the muscle in my lower front side of ankle is gone.(it seems to be the muscle that would move the toes, and i cant move my toes up), my thigh is notable smaller than other, and on my hands between thumb and index finger has thinned out, and I can see the tendon b/w them.( i can still use them and they dont look like Al's photo, just thinned and bony) OH, and all the twitching and invoulantary movements!
So, the only thing that will tell is time. I am normally a very postive person and feel very happy and blessed in my life. Believe me, I dont want to dwell on this or talk myself into this. When your body changes and you match a disease so well, it scary.
The sight helps me because other people have some of the same "strange" things going on. Regardless, If I do not have this, I will spend my time in the community helping others that do. I have always helped out, normally to kids programs. I feel my attention has been pulled in this direction, so I will do anything I can to help. Enen if I do have a neuro muscular disease I could still help.
Yes, I am hoping that it is autoimmune in nature! And I do thank you for replying. The only thing that keeps me stuck is the fact that the muscle in my lower front side of ankle is gone.(it seems to be the muscle that would move the toes, and i cant move my toes up), my thigh is notable smaller than other, and on my hands between thumb and index finger has thinned out, and I can see the tendon b/w them.( i can still use them and they dont look like Al's photo, just thinned and bony) OH, and all the twitching and invoulantary movements!
So, the only thing that will tell is time. I am normally a very postive person and feel very happy and blessed in my life. Believe me, I dont want to dwell on this or talk myself into this. When your body changes and you match a disease so well, it scary.
The sight helps me because other people have some of the same "strange" things going on. Regardless, If I do not have this, I will spend my time in the community helping others that do. I have always helped out, normally to kids programs. I feel my attention has been pulled in this direction, so I will do anything I can to help. Enen if I do have a neuro muscular disease I could still help.
wright
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I did an extensive literature search on motor neuron disease / ALS and aluminum and there isn't too much out there. The latest study (2006) was a study trying to link the incidence of ALS on the island of Guam and aluminum but didn't do a very good job of it. Again, the leading theory revolves around the neurotoxic seeds of the island.
The Kawara review (quoted by Jeff) was published back in 2005 and revolved more around Alzheimer's than ALS (nothing from them since and that paper hasn't gotten very much attention). Another study quoted by Jeff, investigated the link between vaccines given to gulf war veterans and neurotoxicity (the vaccines contained aluminum). They did find an increase in neuronal death with the vaccines, but the investigators of that study cautioned against extrapolating their results to humans (the study was done in mice).
There are other studies but the theme is basically the same. There is simply no concrete evidence. Can aluminum cause neuronal death: yes it can, but does that mean there is a link with ALS . . . no it doesn't. Alcohol also kills neurons but there isn't a link between alcohol consumption and ALS. Jeff quoted those studies to inform people and not to make a link between aluminum and ALS. One has to be careful when interpreting things, especially when you're only getting bits and pieces of information from internet searches.
Suffice to say: right now, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, linking aluminum to ALS. There are so many theories out there and the research will continue until they determine what it is.
The Kawara review (quoted by Jeff) was published back in 2005 and revolved more around Alzheimer's than ALS (nothing from them since and that paper hasn't gotten very much attention). Another study quoted by Jeff, investigated the link between vaccines given to gulf war veterans and neurotoxicity (the vaccines contained aluminum). They did find an increase in neuronal death with the vaccines, but the investigators of that study cautioned against extrapolating their results to humans (the study was done in mice).
There are other studies but the theme is basically the same. There is simply no concrete evidence. Can aluminum cause neuronal death: yes it can, but does that mean there is a link with ALS . . . no it doesn't. Alcohol also kills neurons but there isn't a link between alcohol consumption and ALS. Jeff quoted those studies to inform people and not to make a link between aluminum and ALS. One has to be careful when interpreting things, especially when you're only getting bits and pieces of information from internet searches.
Suffice to say: right now, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, linking aluminum to ALS. There are so many theories out there and the research will continue until they determine what it is.
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