Alternative Therapy Question

[mlb]

My 2 cents on Chinese Medicine.


I normally would ignore a thread like this, because I believe everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but when others are trying to be convinced that 'THIS IS THE ANSWER YOU HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR", I just had to give you my opinion based on personal experience.

Yes, I belive in vitamins, herb tea, supplements, etc. Just don't put all your eggs in one basket. Use balance and good judgement when you look at your own treatment.

By the way after 6 months of treatment, I received absolutely no relief or help from the Chinese Doctor or any of his treatments.

Good luck if you choose this path. I harbor no ill will towards anyone who searches for answers or relief from their diseases, by any method they so choose. It's just not the path I would take for myself or a loved one.

God Bless
Capt AL

No one is trying to convince anyone. I have tried to stress the point that alternatives are worth considering when there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING else on offer. Your opinion counts as is everyone else's here.

To believe in vitamins, herbal tea, supplements, etc... is a contradiction. To believe is to have faith. If you did not have faith in the benefits of those supplements, you would not believe in them.

How did you find relief for your back once stopped treatment with your Chinese doctor?

Thank you for allowing others the freedom to choose.

 

[MtPockets]

I have never found a treatment for my back that would ease the pain. I have been to pain clinics in Florida, numerous back specialists, went through 6 year of Psycho-Theraphy, and after all is said and done, the basic answer is I was told to live with the pain and take pain medicine for the rest of my life. On top of all this I get ALS.

I have tried everything available for over 18 years, and always had the same results. No help, no relief, for the pain. It has only gotten worse over time. Doctors will not operate because my spinal cord has no protective covering due to having Spina Bifida when I was a child and my nerve roots have adhesions with the spinal disc material and they are afraid they will paralyze me. Well, guess I'm heading there anyway thanks to ALS.

Over the years I have found out I am allergic to almost all pain meds. Twice My heart stopped and they coded me because of a reaction to Morphine, and one to Deladid. Anything from the morphine family of drugs I cannot use. My doctors are afraid to operate on me because of not being able to control the pain after surgery.

The only way I am able to deal with the pain is on a spiritual level. In the midst of all this I have peace in my life and spirit because of my trust in God and Jesus. That is the only thing that has given me comfort when I find myself crying from the pain and unable to sleep at night for more than short periods of time. That is the only thing that helps me deal with ALS and my soon coming death.

That is where I put my FAITH. Not Doctors, medicine, Eric Edney, or anything else. This is why I bring up the point of , what does everyone have Faith in? We all, at some point, are going to have to face death square in the eyes. I am not afraid. I have peace. I hope you do too.

I don't "Believe IN" herbs, vitamins, etc. I know from research that my body needs vitamins just like I know my cars engine needs oil. That is a scientific fact. I guess it seems like we both are playing with words here, which I don't really want to do.

The only point I was trying to make is my chinese doctor was trained to believe in his treatments as a form of religion. I do not accept that view personally. Just trying to give another point of view to those who might wonder about such things.

I'm not saying your wrong and I'm right about any of this, I'm saying look at all sides of a story and research, research, research, before you jump into anything.

God Bless
Capt AL

 

[CindyM]

I think it is reasonable to expect that, for some people, vitamins and massage and herbs and even acupuncture might help relieve some of the symptoms of ALS. That doesn't mean anybody is cured. Nor does it mean people with a terminal illness should ignore death when it is facing us in the eye. Just beware of your priorities, is all. Don't waste precious time or money or energy.

I often make an analogy to Alzheimer's when thinking about this disease. My Mom has found relief in some stages of her disease by certain meds or mental exercises, but at the end of the day, she still has Alzheimer's. A cure will be found for both diseases, but not this month. She did better by focusing on the quality of her life while she is still with us, and for her that means accepting what she cannot change, changing what she can, and asking for the grace to know the difference.

 

[mlb]

Mtpockets. I am very sorry that you have been in pain for so long with no meds to relieve it. But... you have tried. You have not succeeded but you have tried. Your faith in God helps you bear what is facing you. God helps those who help themselves - building your immune system with vitamins and herbs is an excellent way of doing precisely that.

CindyM. I agree totally with you.

The downside of having comments such as "Herbal medicine is a religion" is that those who have had success with it or any other alternative treatment for that matter, will never share it here with us for fear of an avalanche of criticism and scaremongering such as we have seen on this thread.

Anna

 

[David]

Meg1, thanks for such a great link (from the WHO), it was a good read.

 

[David]

mlb, I think your strong attitude and loud voice regarding alternative therapies is a bit intimidating.

Also, the way you phrase your comments makes it impossible to reason or argue with you, for those reasons, I won't bother, you'll have a snappy come back that will surely embarass me.

I will say this though, please tone down your promotion on this website or your account will be removed.

Most importantly, stop the outbound links to non-authoratative sites, and sites that provide content solely to promote and sell.

Yes, I know, it was just information and you had no idea, it happens all the time, and it's fine. However, in the future, don't post them if you're not sure, it takes us a lot of time to read through teh posts and sort through the mess.

 

[mlb]

mlb, I think your strong attitude and loud voice regarding alternative therapies is a bit intimidating.

Also, the way you phrase your comments makes it impossible to reason or argue with you, for those reasons, I won't bother, you'll have a snappy come back that will surely embarass me.

I will say this though, please tone down your promotion on this website or your account will be removed.

Most importantly, stop the outbound links to non-authoratative sites, and sites that provide content solely to promote and sell.

Yes, I know, it was just information and you had no idea, it happens all the time, and it's fine. However, in the future, don't post them if you're not sure, it takes us a lot of time to read through teh posts and sort through the mess.

David,

What promotion? What non-authoritative sites and sites that provide content solely to promote and sell? Can you give me an example?

Do you think that my being on this forum is to promote and sell? Why do you think that I have a strong and loud voice for alternative therapies? Could it be that it is out of concern that there is nothing else available to treat ALS but to seek to strengthen the immune system and improve overall health? Could it be that there is urgency in doing something now because it becomes too difficult when symptoms have really progressed to a point of no return?

You can do as you wish David. Cut my account if you like. The site is yours to do as you please. I am not on this forum for myself. Remember that.

Anna

 

[mlb]

David,

I have seen many here offer medications (by name) for various symptoms. These include depression, cramps, pain, twitching, etc... Is this not considered selling/promoting as you so well put it?

Anna

 

[Meg1]

Do you think that my being on this forum is to promote and sell? Why do you think that I have a strong and loud voice for alternative therapies? Could it be that it is out of concern that there is nothing else available to treat ALS but to seek to strengthen the immune system and improve overall health?Anna

Sorry to step in the middle of this (well, not too) but this "strengthen the immune system" business in relation to ALS is nonsensical. If ALS is an autoimmune disease as many believe, strengthening the immune system will be counterproductive. In autoimmune diseases the immune system must be depressed in order for symptoms to ease.

 

[DavidGL]

David,

I have seen many here offer medications (by name) for various symptoms. These include depression, cramps, pain, twitching, etc... Is this not considered selling/promoting as you so well put it?

Anna

Anna,
There is a distinct difference between what the field of medicine has to offer and the anecdotes of alternative therapists. You can do everyone a favor by pointing to an "alternative" web site that has copies of the peer-reviewed clinical studies that show that these alternative methods actually work. For all of the science-based medical solutions, you *will* find such published research. There is a reason why this is important--it weeds out the charlatans from the true scientists.

If you do not have peer-reviewed papers available, the alternative treatments are worthless. No one is attacking you--some of us just want to make sure that the more naive amongst us are not giving their sorely-needed funds to the degenerate souls preying upon them because they are desperate.

Some of us have very strong feelings in this regard.

DavidGL

 

[Mike27]

I’m not sure why people are giving Anna a hard time for bringing forward (and defending from critics) an alternative therapy in thread entitled “Alternative Therapy Question”.

I’ve taken TCM. Anna is quite correct when she says they don’t ‘cubby-hole’ you into a ‘disease’ category. They treat the body as a whole. (This is where the term holistic treatment comes) They treat and give herbs for each symptom. How do they determine which herb to give? I don’t know. I’m not a practitioner of TCM, just as I don’t know how my GP determines which drug I should take for cholesterol. My GP could very well be scamming me, as was insinuated with TCM, by being ‘on the take’ from some pharmaceutical company. I hope not.

TCM goes back thousands of years and it takes a great deal of time and knowledge to become a doctor of TCM: http://www.ctcma.bc.ca/DataFile.asp?FileID=469 and
http://www.tstcm.com/html/educational_standards.html
Any doc of TCM worth their salt will be fully qualified and have their diplomas and certificates in plain view. If you walk into a clinic and don’t see the credentials, then simply leave.

Jut as our GPs must have an understanding of drugs and pharmaceuticals (which are mostly derived from herbs, by the way) TCM docs learn about herbs, massage, acupuncture and the like. They know what to use, how much to use and so on. Just like my GP knows how many mgs of a drug to give me.

A couple of points:
It’s a misconception to say that the treatments of TCM have no side affects. Allergies and drug interactions may come into play (just like regular pharmaceuticals) so one must let their Dr. of TCM know.

The use of herbs and TCM techniques have been around for thousands of years…not literally, it has been thousands of years. The effects have been recorded and passed on to modern practitioners. Is this a cure for ALS? Of course not! Anyone making that claim is lying. But they can treat some symptoms. And no, you don’t have to be a Buddhist or Taoist to benefit from this.

Here’s an informative site:
Traditional Chinese medicine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As Rodney King said; “Can’t we all just get along?”:wink:

 

[MtPockets]

HOW ABOUT A CHANGE OF PACE?
I just ran across a study that concerns me and probably might interest those taking vitamin supplements, like me. As if we didn't have enough to worry about already.

Just another thing to consider. The more information we can get the better it is to make our own decisions. A small quote from a large article from webmd.com:

Antioxidant Supplements Up Death Risk
Study Shows No Benefit, Slightly Higher Death Risk for Antioxidant Supplements
Advice to Consumers
Kathleen Zelman, MPH, RD, LD, is director of nutrition for WebMD. She reviewed the Bjelakovic/Gluud study for this article.

"This is a very comprehensive, to-be-respected analysis. This isn't just another study coming out," Zelman says. "The bottom line is that antioxidant supplements are not a magic bullet for disease prevention. We hoped maybe they were, but they are not."
Taking vitamin A supplements increased the risk of death by 16%.
Taking beta-carotene supplements increased the risk of death by 7%.
Taking vitamin E supplements increased the risk of death by 4%.
Taking vitamin C supplements did not have any effect on risk of death.

To read the report and make up your own mind please go to:

(removed link - non-auth site)
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/132/118260?src=RSS_PUBLIC
Another version of this is at:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/health_diet_antioxidant_vitamins

God Bless
Capt AL

 

[Mike27]

Is this a cure for ALS? Of course not! Anyone making that claim is lying. But they can treat some symptoms.

I wanted to add so there is no misunderstanding, that was my experience. I don't speak for all who have tried TCM. What worked for me may not work for you.
Please don't ask me to prove why it worked or provide proof of a government funded double-blind whatchama hoo...I'm not that smart! :wink:

 

[Mike27]

HOW ABOUT A CHANGE OF PACE?
I just ran across a study that concerns me and probably might interest those taking vitamin supplements, like me. As if we didn't have enough to worry about already.

Just another thing to consider. The more information we can get the better it is to make our own decisions. A small quote from a large article from webmd.com:

Antioxidant Supplements Up Death Risk
Study Shows No Benefit, Slightly Higher Death Risk for Antioxidant Supplements
Advice to Consumers
Kathleen Zelman, MPH, RD, LD, is director of nutrition for WebMD. She reviewed the Bjelakovic/Gluud study for this article.

"This is a very comprehensive, to-be-respected analysis. This isn't just another study coming out," Zelman says. "The bottom line is that antioxidant supplements are not a magic bullet for disease prevention. We hoped maybe they were, but they are not."
Taking vitamin A supplements increased the risk of death by 16%.
Taking beta-carotene supplements increased the risk of death by 7%.
Taking vitamin E supplements increased the risk of death by 4%.
Taking vitamin C supplements did not have any effect on risk of death.

To read the report and make up your own mind please go to:

(removed link, non-auth site)
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/132/118260?src=RSS_PUBLIC
Another version of this is at:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/health_diet_antioxidant_vitamins

God Bless
Capt AL

I had heard about that for vit E but not the others.

Thanks for the site Capt Al!

 

[MtPockets]

Your very welcome. I noticed on the new posts that AL had just posted a new thread about this study.
God Bless
Capt AL