sensory ataxia and........

[johnnyliverpool1]

.....pls...whats the relationship if any.....whats the difference between tremor and clonus....how do you know if its natural muscle wastage ore the other......whens a cramp a spasm.....thank you gang in anticipation for replies...in down to earth language...that even dull me can crasp......maybe not....the pooler:?:

 

[Tokahfang]

This is simplified, but clonus is elicited by setting a reflex off and tremors either come and go on their own or have another trigger. Sustained clonus will usually go for a long time or until you change the foot position, and is caused *usually* by UMN abnormalities.

I think natural muscle wastage vs the bad kind comes down to your EMG and circumstances. Muscles shouldn't atrophy when you're still using them, unless you are experiencing malnutrition (then your body eventually breaks down muscle for parts). If it's immobile, slow atrophy is completely reasonable.

I never did figure out spasm v cramp, I think various doctors in various english speaking countries differentiate the words differently.

 

[johnnyliverpool1]

thanks a bunch tako.....i aint worked it out yet but al try....what about sensory ataxia and pls....would appreciate your thoughts....cheers...dull head...a mean am the dull head...doh..cheers...pooler...

 

[Tokahfang]

Sensory ataxia makes sense in PLS, though I know not everyone has it. The same tract that carries our UMN messages has a side job of being part of the "tell you where your foot is in space" system. I believe it's called procioptive sense, but don't ask me how to spell it! I think it also contributes to "wall walking", since the wall gives you a sure sense of where your body is vertically in space.

Just theorizing at this point, I think it contributes to trips, falls, stumbling into wall after spastic motions. Lacking any info coming back to the contrary, our brains seem to assume their plan worked and act as if we took the step correctly, or whatnot. If we really knew where our feet were, we'd realize we're way off before we faceplant on the ground.

Having said that, I am one of those who have amazing balance. In a manual wheelchair I did wheelie spins (once down a hill in the rain, that was fun!), I walked on stilts in my teen years, and on stilt-like legs when my legs became rod straight with the spasticity. The way I get back in my wheelchair after being pulled up is to lean back until I fall, and I get 10 pt landings every time.... though that doesn't stop medical folk from freaking out. My transfers from tall vehicles are like spastic gymnastics. So I'm speaking only from reading man accounts on PLS-Friends and other support groups.

 

[olly]

johnny.
a tremor would be like what you get in your hands..........this would be a resting tremor or a intention tremor when doing something.
i get the intention tremor when doing things like holding the phone to my ear.........holding something with my elbow bent sets it off.
my pt at the time said it was due to weak torso muscles but i find that debatable.

clonus is due to spasticity..........more spasticity would incite clonus,sometimes if my spasticity is not bad i will not have clonus.
how to tell? in a sitting position feet flat on the floor,lift up the heel of one of your feet so it slightly bends the middle part of the foot.
if you leg jumps up and down then theres clonus.
a neuro will do the same thing to test by bending the lower part of your foot towards your heel with your knee in a bent position.

spasms are general as in a whole leg where as cramps effect one specific musle like the calf and they are more sudden and gripping but dont eventually ease.

ataxia..........i failed all the tests,finger/nose,walking heel to heel ect.
even though these tests can indicate cerebeller disease i think in pls it is due to the spasticity and slowness of movements.

as for atrophy thats a difficult one.
my left side is my weakest with small areas of atrophy even though i still have function.
i did research this and if there is clinical weakness then you can have difuse atrophy.

hope this post helps a bit johnny.

 

[johnnyliverpool1]

well toka and ollie...its been an eye opener,,, thanks lots for making big efforts....having it narated like such makes it so much easier to grasp...rather than reading google..i got more questios to come..mind...loved the pooler...