Status
Not open for further replies.

KimT

Extremely helpful member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
4,873
Reason
PALS
Diagnosis
08/2015
Country
US
State
South
City
The Beach
Last night the representative from the company selling me a wheelchair called. She was not happy that the representative did not bring a chair for me to try. This company is in South Florida so my getting down there is out of the question. I tried to find dealers closer but it was a problem, especially with my back pain and how much it hurts to even be driven 10 miles.

So, the rep's boss is coming in early January with a Permobil M300 and a Quantum Q6 Edge for me to try. I had originally wanted the Permobil M300 because that was what was suggested for me and my lifestyle (Florida is flat and I don't see my using it over any rough ground.) I need a small turning radius which both these have (according to the specs.)

Some of the issues that came up in the conversation was the seat elevation function (which I would have to pay for) was $2,959 on the Permobil and $2,495 on the Quantum. The attendant control is NOT covered on the Permobile (this was news to me) and costs $1,293 but Quantum throws it in.

She mentioned grants for the elevation function and implied they were from ALSA National. Has anyone heard of this? I've had no success in getting a grant from Florida ALSA even though I applied on the first day of two consecutive quarters and then the first week of another quarter.

Now, I'm beginning to understand why some PALS are unable to get a chair and have to rely on loan closets for chairs that don't fit them.

So, anyone want to weigh in on the Quantum. Does anyone even have the Quantum Q6 Edge. It didn't look anything like the Permobil on the web site I checked.
 
Just a clarification on attendant control. Some chairs have something special they call that but it can add great depth to the chair, often the last thing you need. So in real life, most people just have a tech move the joystick to the back when that time comes, or the chair can be driven from the side where it already is, if you have enough room to the side of the chair where you drive it (i.e. not crowded sidewalks).

I would generally choose Permobil over Quantum. But look at the specs and reviews and your own trials.
 
I agree with Laurie about the attendant control

I chose to go the route of having my control moved to the back when the time comes.

My wheelchair provider gave me the seat elevate function at their cost, so my cost was about $1300 for it.

Good luck. I am glad you are going to get to physically look at and try the wheelchairs before having to commit to one.

Steve
 
I had a Quantum Q6 Edge but the hump on the back of chair was a design flaw. The Quantums have the mechanism for the tilt/recline on the back of the seat under a cowling. The cowling made hanging my ventilator from chair handles cause the vent to stick out at a slant and to bounce sideways on bumps. The only option was a vent tray at the top of the backrest which made the chair extra long. I don't know how you would mount a BiPAP or vent, even the small Trilogy without having it right behind your ears. It also had what is called caster jerk, causing it to jerk to one side as it stopped. This is common with mid-wheel drives and generally very minimal and easy to adapt to. But my Edge went rogue, jerking so hard it was very, very difficult to position the chair at a table, sink or on the ramp of my van. That may have been an atypical problem or the chair was a lemon. Between the two problems the chair was ridiculously hard to maneuver indoors or get into my van. I had to fight to get the chair replaced with a Permobil.
 
I also found the caster jerk on the Quantum Q6 Edge to be unacceptable.

Another limitation of the Q6 Edge was that it disabled the drive wheels when the seat was tilted/reclined or legs raised beyond a certain point. That made the chair unusable for me, as I regularly need to have the legs raised and the seat tilted back to be comfortable.

There was some caster jerk on the Permobil M300 that I tried, but there was a vast difference between the amount of jerk on the M300 and the Q6 Edge.

Steve
 
Laurie, Steve, & Diane,

Thank you all so much for your replies. My gut said to go with the Permobil.

Steve, you have helped me so much with the battery information. I really appreciate your willingness to help.

I just don't know what I'd do without this forum. I was so overwhelmed today getting my tax documents ready. I already have so many out-of-pocket medical costs and some are things I never even thought of like the bidet.
 
Kim,

Like you, I don't know what I would do without this forum. When I was initially looking for a wheelchair and a van, the folks on this forum provided the information I needed. I would have been lost on my own.

The people here have made an amazing difference in both small and big things for me; from providing encouragement when things were tough, to sharing in the joy I get having my mobility restored, to offering their knowledge about equipment and medical items.

I can also relate to taxes. The first year I had to prepare taxes after diagnosis I was stunned at how many deductible medical expenses we had incurred. It was a lot of work tracking down all the receipts necessary to backup my claims.

Please let us know as you have more questions! And, have fun trying out the wheelchairs. You know we are going to want to see pictures:).

Steve
 
The one good thing I can say about Numotion and the whole power chair experience is that they or permobil provided the lift at no charge. I made a good case for it...Husband works out of town and has an hour drive to and from work. Leaves a lot of alone time for me and the lift would make my life much easier in the kitchen for instance and also for my husband helping with transfers later. He has a large hernia after a triple aneurysm surgery 3 years ago and isnt' supposed to lift anything over 15 lbs. I would sure like to know how they pick and choose who they "give" the lift feature to. Doesn't seem fair. My choice is definitely the Mid wheel chair. Hope you get to try them in YOUR HOME. That's really the only way to get a clear idea of what is right for you.

CarolSue
 
CarolSue, He's coming on Thursday with both models although my mind is pretty much made up in favor of the Permobil.
 
Hi Kim. I just received my Quantum Q6 Edge 2.0 on Thursday of last week. I had a Permobil C300 from the ALS Association loan closet prior to receiving my chair so I'm familiar with both. Both have the zero turn radius. The footprint for the Q6 seems larger than the C300 especially when you add the Trilogy attachment. I've definitely dinged up the walls a few more times with the Q6 than the C300 during the learning period.

The caster jerk that Steve mentioned is an issue with the Q6 but I've gotten used to it and it's not a deal breaker for me. I just have to start out a little slower when going from forward to reverse and back to forward.

Regarding the seat elevation, I received a grant from the ALS Association to cover the lift option. The grant was initiated by our local chapter and approved by National. From what I've heard, Quantum will also work with you. Hopefully one of those will work with you.

Wes
 
Hi Wes,

I did hear that National would work with Quantum. There is a lot of confusion at my local Chapter level. I think I'm a fly in the ointment there because I bring up all kinds of issues they've not covered. PALS and CALS are not getting enough information about grants and companies that work with writing down add-ons to cost.

I've been writing to my local chapter quite often. Our support group also has a contact list so we can keep in touch and keep track of PALS and CALS. Ours is a very small group but we have a good knowledge base including an RN, two attorneys, and myself (CPA.) It's very exhausting trying to get settled, falling, selling, buying, tax returns, and doctors.

Thanks for writing about your experience with Quantum :)
 
OK. The guy from Mobility Works came today and stayed two hours. He was really pushing the Quantum. He said the Quantum comes with an attendant control standard. Neither offer a standard lift but I can try to apply for a grant. He explained that the grant for a lift can be used for either a Quantum or Permobil and our chapter didn't have the correct information. He said I needed to call them back.

He said BOTH can be adjusted to minimize caster jerk. I had my mind set on the Permobil but the Quantum drove much easier around the condo. However, the Quantum he brought was designed for a small person and the Permobil was designed for a larger person. The Permobil also had the roho cushion which I thought I wanted and needed but the rep said he wouldn't suggest it yet because I still have strength and it can be requested later, if needed. It was available for both chairs.

He said the Quantum comes with both attendant control AND Wifi but the Permobil does not. He also said the Quantum had better traction on wet surface. I like the Permobil's foot rest much better and I like the thigh supports. The ones on the Quantum seem cheap and hard for support. The Quantum had a better feeling back with my fibromyalgia and existing back pain but the Permobil was not made for someone as small as I am. I am very narrow in my upper body.

So I told him I needed to think about it for the weekend. My main concern is comfort down the road.

He also claimed the Quantum could hang my Trilogy in a bag on back but I would have to use the carrier for the Permobil.

Do you think there is some kind of dealer incentive to sell Quantums?

So my choices boil down to Quantum Q6 Edge 2.0 with eye level elevation (you can drive it at faster speeds at an elevation than the Permobile) or Permobil M300 Corpus 3G with seat elevation.

I still don't know. He did say service and parts were good for both models
 
I think Quantums are being pushed . Even though the seating specialist and the occupational therapist from the ALS clinic knew of the problems I had with my quantum, (how angry I was at being recommended a midwheel drive and repeatedly told it would be an easy transition even after 11 years in a rear wheel, and the huge rip off of Medicare they forced me to accept to get the chair replaced) every person in our support group since has been recommended the Quantum.

They were completely unable to fix the caster jerk in the Quantum. They did multiple adjustments with the help of phone support from Quantum. Finally I demanded that the rep come to the next adjustment session. He did, and decided it was necessary to move the seating part further forward on the base. After that and even more tinkering with the control settings, the chair still bashed furniture and walls and was a b^^^^h to get into my van. (A Sprinter with more space than any other van!) My husband was the only one that could even begin to drive it with the attendant controls, and my other caregivers and friends were horrified by it.

What he said about hanging the Trilogy on the Permobil was dead wrong unless there is something added on the backrest for your elevator. The Quantum has a camel hump on the back of the backrest. Anything hung on the back has to go above or below the hump to keep it from bouncing side to side. Mounting it in a carrier adds considerable length to the chair. The Permobil has no hump, just a flat back to hang a Trilogy, LTV vent, tote bag from.
Outdoors any mid-wheel drive is pretty much confined to the side walk. On grass or gravel they can get hung up with the casters on the ground and the drive wheel spinning uselessly over a dip in the ground. This shouldn't be a problem for you however -- no chair will ride smoothly enough on grass or gravel for your back not to hurt badly. Whatever chair you get, you should get pneumatic tires to ease the bump over thresholds and ramps.

To get up an older and still the most common driveway curb you have to drive the Quantum mid-wheel up at an angle nearly parallel to the curb. It feels very possible to tip the chair over sideways and after a couple times I refused to do it.

One question. Why would you want to drive faster with the chair elevated? The only time for speed is outdoors. Even at the mall it is risky because kids and old folks step right in front of you -- and mowing them down for their carelessness is frowned upon!
 
Kim, I know it is a hard decision, yet it is yours to make. I will offer some insight, but please don't take this as me encouraging you to go one way or the other. Just observations from my time with wheelchairs.

  • I believe some (perhaps many) wheelchair reps are the same as used car salespeople. You should not believe ANYTHING they say. They are salespeople. They are there to close the deal. Continued employment and compensation depends on them efficiently closing the deal.
  • If you don't see it or experience it in person, it does not exist. They say they can adjust to reduce caster jerk? Have them prove it by adjusting it to reduce caster jerk before you buy.
  • Wheelchair seating is highly adjustable, though often requiring a size-specific "fit kit". You cannot tell how comfortable a wheelchair will be for you if it is not sized and adjusted just for you. You might get an indication, but you will really never really know.
  • My primary wheelchair has an 18 inch wide back. My backup wheelchair has a 20 inch wide back. What a difference. The narrower one is so much more comfortable for me.
  • I would never want to go fast with the seat elevated. Ever. And I love going fast.
  • Getting a Roho cushion later could be expensive, as there will be copay/deductible.
  • I have both foam-filled and pneumatic tires. I like them both. The pneumatic ones are definitely more comfortable. The foam filled ones give me peace of mind (no potential for a flat). When I am rolling with the pneumatic tires, I carry tools, a pump, and a patch kit. I might not be able to repair a flat, but someone certainly can if I have the equipment.
  • The list price for a pair of Permobil drive wheels is over $800. Make your choice carefully! My insurance paid for a set of foam and a set of pneumatic snow tires. I doubt Medicare would do that.

Good luck!
 
When Steve was getting his chair, the didnt suggest anything but a roho. We were told it prevented pressure sores and problems down the road. Steve had lost his butt muscles and had no cushion left.

Many chairs have a usb on them that a tablet or ipod could be run thru

The seat elevation feature is a godsend. For standing, getting to a counter top, a restaurant table, etc. I would recommend it. The adjustable thigh support was important for steve. It added a lot of comfort.


I would ask the guy to come back with a smaller seat back so you can test it. The seat backs can be rohos also or just different materials.

I used the attendant control very little. Depending on how you are progressing you may or may not need it if you still have hand control. You can also puff/blow for movement, hand controls,foot controls, a laser light...many options so you are independent.

Driving fast at an elevated position really increases your chances for tipping over.

Good luck...there are many things to consider. Steph
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top