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CindyMcConnell

New member
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
4
Reason
Loved one DX
Diagnosis
04/2014
Country
US
State
Illinois
City
Park Ridge
Hi. Within the last 24 hours my Father filled his urine bag will approximately 700cc of bloody "cranberry juice colored" urine.

He went to a full-time catheter a little over a week ago. During the first week his urine changed multiple times, sometimes it was amber color, sometimes it was pink, and sometimes it was red. The nurse told us that was normal, and that the times it was red was probably because he passed a small blood clot.

We called his hospice nurse who made an emergency visit and told us it was not normal, and it surly wasn't good. Also, there is no way for her to tell where the blood is coming from, without taking him to their clinic for further evaluation. She did assure us that it's good that it's leaving his body and he's not retaining it.. Either way, my gut is that it really isn't good.

Also, he is very fatigued today, which would make sense with all the blood loss.

Her recommendation was to keep him comfortable with morphine.

Should I be worried? Dose anyone have suggestions?
 
I'd call the emergency room and explain this to them, or better yet take him straight there
 
>I'd call the emergency room and explain this to them, or better yet take him straight there

ditto that!
 
no, that is not good, and yes I would be worried.
now, I hate to be insensitive but need to ask, you have him home with hospice and the hospice nurse's recommendation was to keep him comfortable with morphine, are you asking because you are worried this is a sign of the end? If so, the nurse ought to be able to help you with these questions. Tell her you need an honest opinion.
otherwise, as Dalvin and Max suggest, he needs to see his doctor asap
 
There are 2 probable scenarios that would cause bloody urine.
1) When they inserted the catheter bacteria was introduced and he had a bladder infection. Needs urinalysis a if he does have an infection must go on antibiotics.

2) Catheter got tugged and there is some trauma to the urethra. Urinalysis does not show leukocytes (white blood cells) so no infection, so watching to see if bleeding stops.

It is very important that he have a urinalysis because if it is an infection with his condition could become septic. If there is not an infection, the catheter must be watched to make sure that it does not get obstructed by a clot. It is not normal to have clots in the bladder, and if it gets large enough it could plug the catheter, and in some cases a bladder irrigation is in order. Again this is dealt with in a hospital.

Paulette
 
Cindy, before you rush your father to the emergency room, think about why he's in hospice in the first place. He might not want to do that. Please take his wishes into account.

Since this is your first post, I haven't had the opportunity to get to know your father's situation. Is he in the final stages of ALS? If so, perhaps he organs are shutting down, preparing for death. (But typically, the urine would be dark and smokey-looking.) In this case, keep him comfortable with morphine.

If he is not in the final stages, then perhaps this is a temporary problem that needs medical attention. Your hospice provider should have a doctor on contract who can advise you if you're not happy with the nurse's recommendation.
 
Thank you all for your replies.

Yes, my father is in hospice, and it was the hospice nurse who came to the house to evaluate him last night.

Here is some history on my father. In December 2013, he was fine, just slowing down. In February he began walking with a shuffle and his left shoulder was dropped. By the end of February he was walking with the support of a normal cane. By Mid March he had advanced to a 4-legged cane and his speech was beginning to be effected. By the beginning of April he was using a walker full-time, and it was April 1st that we received confirmation that it was ALS. On April 8, we had our first visit to the ALS Clinic at the University of Chicago. His pulmonary test was awful, his FVC 42/38 and his MEP/MIP were 20/-13, they suggested we call in Hospice right away, and ordered him 3 breathing assistance machines. 1. BiPap, 2. Cough Assist 3. Something to help him take deep breaths, I don't remember what it's called. After two separate training on the machine, and having problems being able to perform the cough assist and the third machine, dad made the decision that he was only going to use his BiPap. - He would use it in the morning for a couple of hours a day.

At the end of April he underwent the procedure to have his feeding tube put in. He could still swallow most food, but had already given up most meat at the time the tube was put in. Of course the swallow test showed aspiration with fluids and he was instructed to thicken his fluids and change his eating/drinking habits to help avoid the aspiration.

In May, there was not a whole lot of change, but he signed up for Hospice at the end of the month. He was still pretty mobile and using the bathroom. Then June came. One week, he was able stand and get to the bathroom on his own and then the next he needed full assistance. Dad could no longer go to the bathroom or get out of the house on his own by the middle of June. Shortly after the change of needing full assistance, he started experiencing pain in his shoulders and legs, at which time we introduced morphine. Also, Dad was losing the ability to even bear his own weight to even stand for a short period of time.

June 24, he woke up needing to use the bathroom and the burning started. Shortly after he started to complain of pain in the stomach, and we had the nurse come right out. She diagnosed him with a UTI and started antibiotics. This is when she put his catheter in. Later that week, his normal nurse came to visit and we discussed the different colors of his urine throughout that week. Sometimes it was amber, sometimes pink, and a little red. She said that was pretty normal, with the recently new catheter.

At the end of the week, Dad began sleeping more, a LOT. He was sleeping for 14-15 hours during the night. He would wake up around 5 AM, and ask for the BiPap and go back to sleep until around 11:00. He would be awake for a few hours, eat a little food, and then take another nap. Still not using BiPap for more than 4-6 hours during the morning hours.

On Monday this week, his nurse made another visit to the house, and analyzed his urine and said that it was normal colored. At that point it was dark amber. We had save some of the "red" stuff to show her and she said that he had probably passed a blood clot from moving around and we should not worry. We also discussed his new sleep pattern, and she said that could be because his body is fighting the infection and requiring sleep.

Also, for the last 2 weeks, when he tries to stand to shift from one chair to another, his feet turn purple instantly. During the night, he is experiencing a lot of pain in his legs and toes. In fact his big toe is all swollen and red.

And then yesterday, after checking on his urine, we had the nurse back to the house - hence the original posted question. He has absolutely no energy.

Unless he asks, we will not take him to the emergency room. His desire is to be home. I would consider him to be in the final stages, and the nurses have not committed to a "time frame". I understand that all PALS are different, and no one has a crystal ball.

I apologize that I have not posted before this, but as you can see, Dad has progressed rapidly, and I find myself searching up specific things going on.

Needless to say, with the current situation, I'm afraid.
 
I'm sorry Cindy, it does sound like hospice is following him well, and that he is nearing the end. As usual Astugi's comment was spot on and very good advice. Home is the best place for him, and if there is no infection that just make sure he continues to have urine out put, even a little. If his kidneys are failing then this will decrease significantly. If he stops having urine the nurse will check to make sure that the catheter is not obstructed so that he is still comfortable. God Bless you and be with you in this time of difficulty.

Paulette
 
sorry you find yourself in this nightmare.
lack of movement causes lack of circulation which is why the feet turn purple and swell. keeping raise will help and so does massage. and that will feel real good to him...hands too.
 
Cindy, I am so sorry you are at this point in your journey. Thinking of you and wishing you strength.

Debbie
 
What everyone else said plus some! What a fast, terrible journey. So very sorry we didn't have time to chat before. Stay strong and TRY to think of the good times xo
 
Are we sure this is not simply an inadequately-treated UTI? I would at least try 2nd line antibiotics, which is in the province of hospice.
 
Sorry to hear of your dad's fast progression Cindy. Hope it is related to trauma from the catheter but glad you have nursing to support you. No advice to offer but wishing you have strength for the journey.
 
> No advice to offer but wishing you have strength for the journey.

same here!
 
Yes, are they sure it is not a UTI?

they should give him antibiotics just to be on the safe side. but the point of Hospice is not to go to the hospital so it needs to be treated at home.

Sorry everything is moving so fast--stay on top of hospice and ask plenty of questions. don't hesitate to call them if you are not sure about his care.

stay strong--
 
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