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rangerbob

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
24
Reason
Learn about ALS
Diagnosis
01/2011
Country
US
State
CA
City
Mountain View
My 30 y/o wife has ALS and we have two kids (6, 4). She was diagnosed two years ago and is currently at home on a Trilogy vent (by way of bipap, nasal inputs). She has opted against feeding tube and trache. At this point, she has her Trilogy at an output of 30 (air flow out), sleeps alot, doesnt eat much, and is talking very little now. In fact, its really hard for her to talk now. If we remove the air for just a bit she says she gets a drowning like sensation. She is completely bed ridden and has probably lost 30lbs in about 3 months. She is not on morphine right now and only takes zoloft and a muscle relaxer.

I am very sad to lose her and dont want her to go. But it appears as though I am losing her already.

What happens next? Will she fall into a coma? Will she just stop breathing one day? I have no clue and was wondering. I do not want to be caught off guard and need to mentally prepare myself for the upcoming. Yea I get all the generic thoughts from Hospice but I want to get insight from the troops in the trenches.

Thanks in advance. God Bless all!
 
I think you shouls call her Nerologist and ask her/him how to make her comfortable. It would be horrible if she lost the ability bo breathe. Hospice can help with that but call her Dr. and ask what to do and soon! I'll be thinking and praying for her and you.
 
Hello rangerbob. I'm so saddened to hear of your situation and that your wife has chosen not to get a feeding tube but of course that's her decision. As you know, everybody is different in how ALS progresses, etc. I will tell you that once my husband started feeling this sensation of "air hunger", we put him on very, very low doses of morphine (1 mg every 1 or 2 hours). This really helped with his breathing. He was using a BiPap at night and when he had his one nap during the day. He did start sleeping more once he experienced air hunger issues and probably 6 or so weeks later, he slipped in to a sleep like state (not a coma) as he was still aware of what was happening and could respond via closed eye blinks. He was in this state for 5 days (he woke up twice for brief periods), and then passed away. Your wife must be extra tired if she's not eating. My husband was being fed solely through his PEG for about 2 weeks before he died. Sending you lots of warm thoughts and strength. Yasmin
 
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Hello rangerbob. I'm so saddened to hear of your situation and that your wife has chosen not to get a feeding tube but of course that's her decision. As you know, everybody is different in how ALS progresses, etc. I will tell you that once my husband started feeling this sensation of "air hunger", we put him on very, very low doses of morphine (1 mg every 1 or 2). This really helped with his breathing. He was using a BiPap at night and when he had his one nap during the day. He did start sleeping more once he experienced air hunger issues and probably 6 or so weeks later, he slipped in to a sleep like state (not a coma) as he was still aware of what was happening and could respond via closed eye blinks. He was in this state for 5 days (he woke up twice for brief periods), and then passed away. Your wife must be extra tired if she's not eating. My husband was being fed solely through his PEG for about 2 weeks before he died. Sending you lots of warm thoughts and strength. Yasmin

thanks Yasmin. how many years did your husband live with ALS? was he ever on bipap 24/7? did you all remove the bipap after a certain point?
 
Bob had symptoms for about 1 1/2 years before he was diagnosed on 08 November, 2010. His left hand got really weak and then his speech started to slur a bit probably in November 2010. He started using a BiPap in April last year, at night only and then during his daytime nap. This was the most he used his BiPap. He had stated that he wouldn't ever want to use the BiPap 24 hours and fortunately/unfortunately he didn't need to. Bob was 64 when he died.
 
Hi, Ranger.
Sorry to see such a young one go, with such young kids. Maybe my experiences will be of some benefit. Brace yourself—I do not sugar coat.
My Kristine was 50 when she tripped once. Being a medical doctor, she knew that every effect has a cause, so she saw a neurologist, got an EMG, and tears were shed.
In December 2010, she was doing cartwheels. January: cane. Feb: walker. March: part-time wheelchair. April: Complete lower paralysis and arms and hands too weak to do much. She operated a power chair with her remaining two fingers, and it was difficult to understand her speech.
She was a veteran, and the ALS was caused by exposure to chemical weapons (probably) so the VA took very good care of us.
Antidepressants were necessary for everyone.

When she was bed-ridden, we took care of the paperwork and trained our 14 and 16 year old how to feed her, prepare her meds, scratch her, wipe her butt, use the patient lift, and drive her to the wheelchair van at dinner time.

She refused any tubes, trache or PEG, and said she did not want to go into the hospital for any reason. She would prefer to live at home, even if the care were deemed inadequate. I’m told that probably all doctors prefer the “no tubes” route. We put a DNR on our refrigerator door for EMTs to see it.
Bedridden or not, we loaded her up every day, supported by straps, and took her out to eat, where we took turns feeding her what little she could swallow.
At some point, she noted that her weakness and breathing difficulties were worsening. Considering the speed of this progression, she simply began to cry and said, “Michael, it’s time to call Hospice.” We got a nurse to sit in the room, and I stayed with her 24/7, ordering delivery food for the family. Her entire family of sisters and brother took shifts talking to her and playing with the computer and television.
When she couldn’t swallow, we served her Coca Cola by dropping it into her mouth with a straw, half CC at a time. Very carefully, in case it would go down the wrong tube, which it did every day, causing a life threatening choking. We squeezed her and used suction to clear her throat.
Hospice nurses varied in quality from outstanding to worthless, so I did all the vitals, meds, and air adjustments in teamwork with the nurse. Hospice put a box of meds in the frig, mainly relaxers and morphine.

Krissy communicated by moving her gaze across a computer, which spoke to us. But she would get tired mid-sentence.

At some point, she managed to tell us the words “air hunger” and so I insisted on having the doctor drive to my house. I wasn’t sure if this was it. By giving her the morphine, would I be killing her?

The doc explained how the morphine allows the CPAP to open the lungs easier. Indeed, the CPAP and morphine did well.

Each time increased her air hunger, we offered her the choice to get more air, or use more morphine She often chose morphine. It totally eliminated her fears, anxiety and air hunger.

Then within a few days, her eyes locked up and she had absolutely no method of communicating whatsoever. No muscles worked anywhere. He eyes were pinpoints from the drugs. Her urine turned dark and she took no drinks except a wet sponge on her lips.

The next evening the nurse said she would die soon, and I thought she meant within several hours. Indeed, she meant ‘now’. So the family gathered around, and as my daughter and I held her hands, the breathing stopped, the heartbeat went eerily silent, and her pupils opened wide.

We said some nice words, toasted a drink, called the organ donor hotline and the funeral home, who took her away on a gurney covered up.

There was no coma, no pain, no fear, no discomfort. She was totally locked up for only a day or so, and didn’t care because of the drugs.

I’m really glad she went quickly, as she wanted.
 
Mike, your post is heartbreaking and comforting at the same time.
 
Hi Rob,

My mom is 51 and is in basically the same place as your wife. I am 30 and can't even imagine facing my own mortality at this point. I'm so sorry. Mom was told she is at 22% lung capacity and she's opting out of a vent so we're looking at 6 months. She is on her biPAP 24/7 and she did have the PEG tube surgery a few months ago and eats solely through the tube. She was only diagnosed in July and only began having symptoms about 5 months before that. Her progression has been very rapid. I've been wondering the same things as you are. Hospice brought us an "emergency kit" which has morphine, adavan, haldol and a few other drugs to make her comfortable when the end comes. Hospice also gave us a little book on what to expect when someone is dying. Sleeping a lot, "turning inward," depression... I guess these are all normal. I can't tell if she's speaking less because it's so hard for her to speak or if it's depression and introversion. She is sleeping 16-18 hours a day, but she still gets out of bed and takes the short walk to her chair in the living room to Skype with our family out of state.
I've also felt the "losing her already" feeling. ALS takes so much of our loved ones away from us before they die, but it's sneakier than death. You lose all of the things you did together, even simple things like grocery shopping or driving a car get swept right out from under your nose and so you're left with all of these little things to grieve over. Most of the time, people die and you grieve for them as a whole, ALS forces us to grieve for each little thing lost over an extended length of time. ALS forces us to miss our loved ones before they are even really gone.
I think you and I are in about the same stage of this hell. If you'd like to PM me, feel free.
 
Ranger, I'm so sorry for your family to be going through this.
I wish I had some magic words for you
 
At some point, she managed to tell us the words “air hunger” and so I insisted on having the doctor drive to my house. I wasn’t sure if this was it. By giving her the morphine, would I be killing her?

The doc explained how the morphine allows the CPAP to open the lungs easier. Indeed, the CPAP and morphine did well.

Each time increased her air hunger, we offered her the choice to get more air, or use more morphine She often chose morphine. It totally eliminated her fears, anxiety and air hunger.

Then within a few days, her eyes locked up and she had absolutely no method of communicating whatsoever. No muscles worked anywhere. He eyes were pinpoints from the drugs. Her urine turned dark and she took no drinks except a wet sponge on her lips.

The next evening the nurse said she would die soon, and I thought she meant within several hours. Indeed, she meant ‘now’.

Thanks for the response. This is indeed what I am looking for. I want the truth.

In retrospect, does the morphine accelerate the process? Hospice has politely recommend we consider morphine but my doctor says no not yet. She isnt in any physical pain but the bipap is getting to a max point.

I am even considering the impact on my son and daughter... given the physical state of your wife would you allow small children in the room? I suspect no.... Thoughts?

Thanks!
 
thanks susan!
 
Hi Rob,

My mom is 51 and is in basically the same place as your wife. I am 30 and can't even imagine facing my own mortality at this point. I'm so sorry. Mom was told she is at 22% lung capacity and she's opting out of a vent so we're looking at 6 months. She is on her biPAP 24/7 and she did have the PEG tube surgery a few months ago and eats solely through the tube. She was only diagnosed in July and only began having symptoms about 5 months before that. Her progression has been very rapid. I've been wondering the same things as you are. Hospice brought us an "emergency kit" which has morphine, adavan, haldol and a few other drugs to make her comfortable when the end comes. Hospice also gave us a little book on what to expect when someone is dying. Sleeping a lot, "turning inward," depression... I guess these are all normal. I can't tell if she's speaking less because it's so hard for her to speak or if it's depression and introversion. She is sleeping 16-18 hours a day, but she still gets out of bed and takes the short walk to her chair in the living room to Skype with our family out of state.
I've also felt the "losing her already" feeling. ALS takes so much of our loved ones away from us before they die, but it's sneakier than death. You lose all of the things you did together, even simple things like grocery shopping or driving a car get swept right out from under your nose and so you're left with all of these little things to grieve over. Most of the time, people die and you grieve for them as a whole, ALS forces us to grieve for each little thing lost over an extended length of time. ALS forces us to miss our loved ones before they are even really gone.
I think you and I are in about the same stage of this hell. If you'd like to PM me, feel free.

thanks for the kind words. it appears as though we are in fact in the same boat. i will PM u.
 
anyone else... anything i need to be on the lookout for? thanks!
 
Good luck and sorry you have to join us here.
 
What happens next? I suspect none of us here can tell you exactly. Perhaps your doctor can.... Death comes uniquely to each one.

But, I can tell you that by the time we were dealing with bed bound and bipap, we were near the end. That said, my pals was an independent sort and got up and out long after others would have thrown in the towel. Speaking went first, then swallow (without peg wouldn't have managed the 18 months from diagnosis), then legs, then arms & torso, then head). She died via infection but over a number of weeks..she was basically very strong physically and even after she could take nothing in by mouth or peg and her kidneys had shut down she still lasted out a week or more. Breathing/heart was last to go.

I hope whatever happens for you and your wife will happen organically and without inordinate distress. I'm so sorry you find yourself in this place. If I can be of any help please pm or message me.

Thinking of you both.
 
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