Death or Ventilator?

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cfoughty

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Joined
Jul 3, 2011
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17
Reason
PALS
Diagnosis
06/2011
Country
US
State
Or
City
Springfield
Just a little survey to help me decide what I should do when I can't breathe on my own.

Are you on a ventilator now, because you need it to breathe for you? (yes/no)

If you are on on a vent to stay alive, would you do it again? (yes/no)

If you are not on on a vent:

Do you plan to go on a vent to stay alive? (yes/no)


Please only answer if you are a person with ALS.

Also please answer yes or no. I will summarize in a few days/weeks depending on how long it takes to get a decent number of answers.

Thank you,

Cy
 
No desire for vent now but I may change my mind if it comes to that.
 
Why are you taking a poll here? There are very few ventilator-dependent patients here unless they're hiding in the woodwork. You'll have a larger response rate at a site like Patients Like Me. where there are Internet-active ventilator-dependent PALS. I'll save you the trouble of going over there and asking them, however. From what they have said in the past, they are all happy they did it and they would do it again under the same circumstances.

Which brings up a second point that is germane to your "poll" -- selection bias.

Ventilator use can be discontinued at any time at the patient's request, provided that the local legal niceties are observed. That means that it is very unlikely that you will receive a negative answer from a currently ventilated person -- if they are able to communicate enough to answer your question, they can communicate well enough to request that their ventilator be turned off. And that's what they do. People who are still alive to answer your question obviously haven't made that request and are less likely to give you a negative answer. The ones that didn't like the experience most likely have discontinued the ventilator and aren't here to answer the question.

As to the question you are asking of PALS that haven't yet reached that point, why do you care what they think? They have no more experience with the procedure than you do. If you look at previous discussions held on this board and others, you'll see a wide variety of opinions given and an equally wide variety of reasons, rational and not-so-rational, for those opinions. I can tell you, having lived with this disease for about 5 years, that people make and remake this decision many times during the course of this disease. What they say today may (and often does) change radically as circumstances change.

So, ask your questions this month and you'll get one set of results. Ask six months from now and you'll likely get a different set of results. Are you sure that you want to base your decision on something that variable and that volatile?

Furthermore, the results that you'll get from non-vented PALS are likely to be wavering, except for those who have strong religious, moral, or even political convictions (that you don't know and they may not tell or acknowledge). If you don't share the convictions of those opinionated individuals, why would you care what they think if that's why they think it?

Finally, this is, in my experience, one of the touchiest subjects to discuss in the ALS community, mostly because it costs little to posture and jump on various soapboxes while beating a particular tune on a drum. Personally, I find the vent/no-vent decision difficult enough in quiet discussions with people that genuinely care about me to want to turn it into a circus for people I don't know and that don't know me. If you're that undecided, evaluate the probabilities and generate random numbers to make the decision. It's a lot quieter and much easier on the ego. Plus, you can change the probabilities and generate a new random number whenever you need or want to -- no muss and no fuss.

Just a few things you might want to consider when analyzing the results of your poll, providing that you get any to speak of.
 
Cy,It is a very personal decision.

I would suggest go to... Life with als . com, under the section entitled "To vent or not to vent", written by a dear friend joelc who sadly is no longer with us, but it contains much information you might be interested in reading to help you make your own decision.
 
I understand your points, and have considered and thought and researched as you have described for months. This little poll is voluntary. The selection bias you speak of is possible, but don't assume. I merely want a snapshot of opinions. This is not a definitive answer for PALS, just an information point.

Don't be angry, it is not a good use of the time we have left.

I was diagnosed in June of this year, the progression is so fast that I may not have but a year left. It's happened so quickly, that I'm having trouble figuring out everything even with help from the ALSA.

I don't fear death, I just enjoy life so much that the thought of leaving so early is not pleasant (I'm 53). I'm not depressed, or distressed, even though 5 months ago I just had a limp, and now I can't transfer myself, or move my limbs hardly at all, and my breathing is bad. It's been quick. Live peacefully with lots of humor.
 
Read that. Extremely good. Joel was wonderful.
 
Cfoughty, I'm so sorry to hear of your rapid progression. Venting is a very sensitive and serious subject. I think it's wise to learn of the procedure and the care that a vent will require. My husband isn't ready to discuss this at all, and that's okay with me. His FVC is still high. Joel was wonderful and I have had a lot of questions answered by visiting the above referenced site. I wish you peace with every choice you make!
 
Yes, I really haven't decided yet.
 
I'm not a PALS, but at this point my husband has decided not to vent and let nature take its course. His FVC is below 19%. Venting is such a personal decision, but I understand why you asked. Other people's perspectives and life experience with or without the vent could open your own mind to help make an informed decision. Actually, this is what this forum has been for us... a wealth of knowledge from other members' experiences. We've taken a lot of good advice from many of you and so far, so good. :)

Take care, Cy. I sure hope you're around a long time and don't have to make that decision any time soon.
 
Nobody's angry here -- unless you are. My point is that pretending to take a poll about a sensitive subject while promising to enlighten us about the results is a very condescending way to broach what is arguably the most sensitive subject that comes up here. It's the kind of thing people who want to stir up things do for their own purposes and amusements, not for the good of all. I hope that's not the intention you have, but that's how it comes across to me. Mostly because I've seen too much heat and too little light shed in most discussions of this subject.

So, why don't you give us your own best answers to the questions you are asking of us? Puts us all on an equal footing, you see, since this isn't any kind of scientifically valid poll, for the reasons I stated above. You say that you've "considered and thought and researched as you have described for months." I've been diagnosed for over four years and symptomatic for just short of five years and I know I haven't spent months pondering and researching the vent/no-vent decision -- and I spend more time thinking about and researching stuff concerning ALS than the average PALS.

What conclusions have you come to? Maybe we can get to know you a little better.
 
I used to do hours per day of reseearch too. Then it got too hard to write long answers. Now I have trfogey, Wright and Notme to do all the long answers and technical stuff. Thanks guys.

AL.
 
Are you on a ventilator now, because you need it to breathe for you? - NO
If you are on on a vent to stay alive, would you do it again? N/A
If you are not on on a vent:
Do you plan to go on a vent to stay alive? NO- not at this point. My life is singing and music. When I can no longer do that I don't see much a reason to keep going by artificial means.
 
To answer trfogey:

No
No
Yes

As of today.
 
Geez, I just wanted a little quantification for input. Just yes/no answers. This was not meant to upset folks.

I understand this is personal. But it really isn't, your family/friends are quite interested and effected.

And I understand this is a super difficult decision.
 
Once again, nobody's upset here unless you are.

I posted a poll that members have the option of responding anonymously to. We'll see what kind of responses come in.

And don't assume that the opinions of family and/or friends aren't taken into account, even among those who adamantly insist that it is an individual's personal decision. You're not suggesting that those other folks should have some type of "veto" power or that their wishes should override those of the PALS, are you?
 
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