PSW's and FIB's Question

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KANSASTOM

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I am still reviewing my EMG results and have a a question somehere may be able to answer. I understand that PSW's and FIB's are a sign that the muscle has lost it's connection, this can be cause by the breakdown in the insulation or a discontinuity in the internal part of the nerve or a conduction block. Is it more important where these FIB's and PSW's are located, distally or proximally? Does this type of denervation happen all of the body with a neuropathy?
 
Hello Tom

Positive sharp waves (PSW's) and fibrillations (fibs) are both spontaneous electrical activities produced by individual muscle cells when they lose contact with the nerves that innervate them (if you want, I could give you the reason they become spontaneously active but I'll save that if you specifically request it, because it gets a bit more technical). The loss of innervation is what denervation is. PSW's and fibs are seen with ALS but can also be seen with many other conditions, including neuropathies.

PSW's and fibs are not due to the loss of myelin, though, which is what you had stated. The loss of myelin (i.e. demyelinization) is something that would be detected with the nerve conduction study (not the EMG) and would be evident if there was a slowed conduction along a nerve . . . meaning . . . the electrical activity along the nerve slowed down because the insulating myelin was lost. This is something seen with CIDP and GBS for example.

Conduction block is when the electrical activity along a nerve is stopped because of the complete loss of myelin or because the nerve itself was damaged. Conduction block is typically seen with MMN and CIDP and can also be seen with neuropathies as well (it depends on what causes the neuropathy).

PSW's and fibs can be detected in any muscle that has been denervated, be it distal or proximal. ALS typically starts with distal denervation but not always. Neuropathies (such as MMN) can certainly have widespread denervation seen and that denervation can be seen distally or proximally, depending on the type of neuropathy one has. MMN is one that typically (again, not always) begins distally but there are some neuropathies that can be relegated solely to proximal muscles.

One other thing: as soon as the muscle cells are reinnervated, the PSW's and fibs disappear. Only when you have a progressive illness that causes muscles cells to be continually denervated will the PSW's and fibs persist.

I hope that helps.
 
Wright, Thanks this does help in my report I noticed I had more PSW's and FIB's in my lower extremeties and it was distally. However I also had occassional PSW's in the upper extremeties but not as prominent. The report stated I had occasional PSW's in the upper extremeties but without the FIB's, what would this indicate?
 
Hello again Tom

What were the values of your PSW's and fibs (+/- or +1 or +2 etc.) in each muscle? PSW's and fibs are both due to denervation and most actually think they're the same thing but just manifest in a different way during the recording. It's more the values that dictate the extent of denervation in the muscle.

Is there any mention of MUP's on the report? If so, what does it say about them?
 
Wright, In the upper extremeties the report for the most part reads "1 to 2+ fibrillation potentials occasional positive sharp waves, no fasciculations , normal appearing motor units, normal recruitment and full interference pattern at all locations. The lower revealed 1+ PSW's and 1+ Fib's no fasciculations , normal appearing motor units, normal recruitment and full interference pattern at all locations except where my atrophy in the left calf (peroneus longus and gastrocnemius) revealed increased recruitment rate of speed and complex repetitive discharge and occasional polyphasic motor units. This could also be due to my stenosis in the lumabr region along with a herniated disk in the same region. I have mild weakness in both ankles and of course the extremely high archs and hammer toes on my left foot.
 
kansastom

sorry to intrude, but where your toes on the left always that way? we have talked before about my high arches and such. Well, the toes on my left foot dont move up anymore, my nuero discoverd this. I had not noticed before. I can move them with my toe but not alone. Anyway, can you move those toes? were the hammer toes always there or became notable later? My feet hurt alot when walking for awhile and I can no longer where my heels, I still do if I am going out but I pay the price for days! My ankles are weak as well, I can still walk and all. Are your fingers different? my index fingers at the top seem to be turning inwards? kinda strange. I can still bend them and use them but they are looking differnt and ache alot. Just wondering.....

april
 
My toes have always been kinda hammer toe like, but in the last four years that have have gotten worse along with my arches. I can still run and jump and do all of the stuff I use to be able to do except not as well and certainly for not as long. My feet hurt also, I think this is due to losing some of the padding in my feet.
 
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