jim_bravo
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 10
- Reason
- Other
- Diagnosis
- 00/0000
- Country
- UK
- State
- UK
- City
- London
Age: 25
Ethnicity: Caucasian
Self-Symptoms (up-to 4 months):
- Pins needles (although occuring less recently), especially when something is digging into nerve higher up the limb. Of course this is natural, but the effect is much more pronounced than in the past. First symptom noticed (although things like weakness and fatigue are kinda vague, and could have been missed for ages).
- Internal muscle twitching - can occur anywhere, and are very on-off, but absolutely the most noticeable symptom
- Tremors, Dexterity? - especially ossociated with upper arms with tasks like, say, drinking soup with a spoon etc. - Possibly the tremors have decreased recently. Possible loss of dexterity in the fingers - especially the left hand.
- Involuntary reflex - sudden jerk of body, limb or finger. Especially noticable in bed, but has occured in other situations too.
- Fatigue - Holy cow. I can't finish a day properly. It suddently hits me in the evening. Could be stress-related through disease worry, or lack of eating, rather than a symptom itself, but is absolutely undeniable.
- Cramping - especially in the shins and ankles. Medium severity, and easily walked off. Also, alot of smaller mini-cramps (small in both pain-level and duration)
- Double vision - I slip into double vision often, and then have to focus hard to get it back. Worse in some days than others. Not a ALS aymptom, but explainable by stress or fatigue? In all honesty, I'm kinda hoping this to be an MS sign (with all due respect to MS sufferers, I'm that desperate, as we'll see later in the EMG section).
- Throat? - Strange feeling in throat. Seem to have a lot of mucus to cough up, which do so. But then it seems to build up quickly again. Could have always happened. I've never been this observant of my body before.
- Left arm atrophy? Weakness? - The big one. I'm right-handed, and have always been aware of being less-impressive on the left (biceps/forearms). However, I cant help but think the difference was always as big as it seems now. A bone on my left sholder points out clearly, while is completely submerged in muscle on the right. Also, my left arm is weaker, and shakes, fails and aches when I test each arm with similar weights. Again, I'm sure the dominant arm should naturally be stronger, but by how much?
- Yawning? - Yawning attacks. Being aware that thinking/worrying about yawning causes yawning (especially having read about it on ALS symptom lists), this is a hard one to gauge the validity of.
- Tripping? - Tripping a lot recently. However, I have just moved from the ultra-save UK to Bangkok which has loads of tripping oppurtunities (wrecked paving slabs, random unsigned tripping hazards), and I have been wearing flip-flops (which force a foot-dragging step to keep them on). Also, I been in a daydream of worry and thought while walking, and dont really look out for hazards.
- Voice? - Every slurred word and stutter has me in a panic now. Maybe has always happened at this kinda freqency, and maybe am putting a lot of pressure on myself when I do speak. Really not sure.
Doctor symptoms:
- Reflexes - Very violent patella reflex. Noted by all 4 doctors who tested me.
- Weight loss - 90kg to 83kg in a month - but I barely eat, and walked around hot Bangkok a lot recently, for sometimes many hours at a time. Explainable for sure.
NCS Study:
- Normal distal motor latency, normal CMAP amplitude and motor NCV
- Normal sensory latencies of various nerves
- Low-normal F-wave latency - bilateral tobial and peroenal nerves
- Normal F-wave study in median/ulnar nerves
EMG 1: (Neurologist Sidipa Chotchaisathit, M.D.)
- Increase insertional activities, few spontaneous activities, Fasciculation and polyphasic MUAP, late response and large MUAP (0.2-10mV), long duration (8-12ms) and reduce MUAP recruitment of bilateral 1st DI muscles, at bilateral 1st DI, Tibialis anterior, Lt Vastus femoris muscles.
- Normal insertional activities, no spontaneious activities, few fasciculation and polyphasic MUAP, late response and large MUAP(0.2-5mV), long duration(8-12ms) and reduce MUAP recruitment of bilateral Vastus medialis and Lt. Biceps brachii muscles, at bilateral 1st DI, tibialis anterior, Lt Vastus femoris muscles
- Normal insertional activities, no spontaneous activities, normal MUAP of Orbicularis oris muscle (mouth)
- Interpretetion: Needle EMG showed sign of membrane instability, fasciculation and chronic denervation neuropathic pattern in general limbs, esp. bilateral 1st DI muscles, but still normal study in bulbar muscle.
- Most likely cause: Motor neuron disorder disorder was probably
- Moderate inact neur: Left bicep
Pronounced inact neur right quadricep
Pronounced subac neur Left quadricep, left hand, right hand, left shin, right shin
Normal: Left mouth
Holy shit. Ok, the hospital will arrange a re-test with their neuro-muscular disease + EMG specialist Dr. Kongkiat Kulkantrakorn, M.D. the next day... Looong 24 hours...
EMG 2: (Nero-muscular disease and EMG specialist Dr. Kongkiat Kulkantrakorn,M.D)
- Study requested to rule out myopathy and MND. Previous NCS was normal, but EMG showed positive sharp waves, and some large polyphastic motor units.
- EMG of left EDC, both biceps, right ATB, right medial gastrocnemius and right tibialis anterior were normal. There is no positive sharp waves, fibrillation or fasciculation in all muscles examined. Motor units were normal in morphologies, firing rates and recruitment pattern. Interference pattern were also normal.
- This is a normal study. There is no electrophysiological evidense of acute or chronic denervation in 3 limbs. There is no evidense of MND or myopathy. Clinical correlation suggested.
- Normal: right bicep, left bicep, right shin, left calf, left behind forearm
Maybe I'm just another under-aged hypochondriac pestering people with more important things to take care of, but the twitching and THAT EMG result made me feel like it was all over for me, until some other guy clears me 100% 24 hours later.
What is going on?! Is the 1st doctor completely incompetant with the test? Is the 2nd doctor hiding something (he just repeated I'm too young for it, etc.). Can a sufferer have days where they show false-negative? Can a non-sufferer (not necessarily ALS, but MD etc.) show a false-positive? Could my stress-level etc. EMG affect results? When I took the 2nd test I had accepted I was in deep trouble, and I think I'd had a drink or two the night before.
2nd doctor pushed me in direction of some vague benign fasciculation/cramp syndrome, and poo-pooed the 1st EMG. This explains cramps and fasciculations, but very large patella reflex? Possibly the yawning thing?
As far as my shreads of hope go. Double vision and tingling/pins-needles don't seem to be classic ALS (although pins/needles is a ALS symptom on Wiki I think, and a few other places). Also, as I heard a millions times, "I'm too young". As far as I'm concerned, if I failed a EMG on 4 limbs and Hawking got it at 21, I'm gonna fear the worst. The 2nd EMG, though, has now put me in a huge limbo situation, where I dont know what my future is, and I'm living in a bit of a zombiefied state.
Please help..
Ethnicity: Caucasian
Self-Symptoms (up-to 4 months):
- Pins needles (although occuring less recently), especially when something is digging into nerve higher up the limb. Of course this is natural, but the effect is much more pronounced than in the past. First symptom noticed (although things like weakness and fatigue are kinda vague, and could have been missed for ages).
- Internal muscle twitching - can occur anywhere, and are very on-off, but absolutely the most noticeable symptom
- Tremors, Dexterity? - especially ossociated with upper arms with tasks like, say, drinking soup with a spoon etc. - Possibly the tremors have decreased recently. Possible loss of dexterity in the fingers - especially the left hand.
- Involuntary reflex - sudden jerk of body, limb or finger. Especially noticable in bed, but has occured in other situations too.
- Fatigue - Holy cow. I can't finish a day properly. It suddently hits me in the evening. Could be stress-related through disease worry, or lack of eating, rather than a symptom itself, but is absolutely undeniable.
- Cramping - especially in the shins and ankles. Medium severity, and easily walked off. Also, alot of smaller mini-cramps (small in both pain-level and duration)
- Double vision - I slip into double vision often, and then have to focus hard to get it back. Worse in some days than others. Not a ALS aymptom, but explainable by stress or fatigue? In all honesty, I'm kinda hoping this to be an MS sign (with all due respect to MS sufferers, I'm that desperate, as we'll see later in the EMG section).
- Throat? - Strange feeling in throat. Seem to have a lot of mucus to cough up, which do so. But then it seems to build up quickly again. Could have always happened. I've never been this observant of my body before.
- Left arm atrophy? Weakness? - The big one. I'm right-handed, and have always been aware of being less-impressive on the left (biceps/forearms). However, I cant help but think the difference was always as big as it seems now. A bone on my left sholder points out clearly, while is completely submerged in muscle on the right. Also, my left arm is weaker, and shakes, fails and aches when I test each arm with similar weights. Again, I'm sure the dominant arm should naturally be stronger, but by how much?
- Yawning? - Yawning attacks. Being aware that thinking/worrying about yawning causes yawning (especially having read about it on ALS symptom lists), this is a hard one to gauge the validity of.
- Tripping? - Tripping a lot recently. However, I have just moved from the ultra-save UK to Bangkok which has loads of tripping oppurtunities (wrecked paving slabs, random unsigned tripping hazards), and I have been wearing flip-flops (which force a foot-dragging step to keep them on). Also, I been in a daydream of worry and thought while walking, and dont really look out for hazards.
- Voice? - Every slurred word and stutter has me in a panic now. Maybe has always happened at this kinda freqency, and maybe am putting a lot of pressure on myself when I do speak. Really not sure.
Doctor symptoms:
- Reflexes - Very violent patella reflex. Noted by all 4 doctors who tested me.
- Weight loss - 90kg to 83kg in a month - but I barely eat, and walked around hot Bangkok a lot recently, for sometimes many hours at a time. Explainable for sure.
NCS Study:
- Normal distal motor latency, normal CMAP amplitude and motor NCV
- Normal sensory latencies of various nerves
- Low-normal F-wave latency - bilateral tobial and peroenal nerves
- Normal F-wave study in median/ulnar nerves
EMG 1: (Neurologist Sidipa Chotchaisathit, M.D.)
- Increase insertional activities, few spontaneous activities, Fasciculation and polyphasic MUAP, late response and large MUAP (0.2-10mV), long duration (8-12ms) and reduce MUAP recruitment of bilateral 1st DI muscles, at bilateral 1st DI, Tibialis anterior, Lt Vastus femoris muscles.
- Normal insertional activities, no spontaneious activities, few fasciculation and polyphasic MUAP, late response and large MUAP(0.2-5mV), long duration(8-12ms) and reduce MUAP recruitment of bilateral Vastus medialis and Lt. Biceps brachii muscles, at bilateral 1st DI, tibialis anterior, Lt Vastus femoris muscles
- Normal insertional activities, no spontaneous activities, normal MUAP of Orbicularis oris muscle (mouth)
- Interpretetion: Needle EMG showed sign of membrane instability, fasciculation and chronic denervation neuropathic pattern in general limbs, esp. bilateral 1st DI muscles, but still normal study in bulbar muscle.
- Most likely cause: Motor neuron disorder disorder was probably
- Moderate inact neur: Left bicep
Pronounced inact neur right quadricep
Pronounced subac neur Left quadricep, left hand, right hand, left shin, right shin
Normal: Left mouth
Holy shit. Ok, the hospital will arrange a re-test with their neuro-muscular disease + EMG specialist Dr. Kongkiat Kulkantrakorn, M.D. the next day... Looong 24 hours...
EMG 2: (Nero-muscular disease and EMG specialist Dr. Kongkiat Kulkantrakorn,M.D)
- Study requested to rule out myopathy and MND. Previous NCS was normal, but EMG showed positive sharp waves, and some large polyphastic motor units.
- EMG of left EDC, both biceps, right ATB, right medial gastrocnemius and right tibialis anterior were normal. There is no positive sharp waves, fibrillation or fasciculation in all muscles examined. Motor units were normal in morphologies, firing rates and recruitment pattern. Interference pattern were also normal.
- This is a normal study. There is no electrophysiological evidense of acute or chronic denervation in 3 limbs. There is no evidense of MND or myopathy. Clinical correlation suggested.
- Normal: right bicep, left bicep, right shin, left calf, left behind forearm
Maybe I'm just another under-aged hypochondriac pestering people with more important things to take care of, but the twitching and THAT EMG result made me feel like it was all over for me, until some other guy clears me 100% 24 hours later.
What is going on?! Is the 1st doctor completely incompetant with the test? Is the 2nd doctor hiding something (he just repeated I'm too young for it, etc.). Can a sufferer have days where they show false-negative? Can a non-sufferer (not necessarily ALS, but MD etc.) show a false-positive? Could my stress-level etc. EMG affect results? When I took the 2nd test I had accepted I was in deep trouble, and I think I'd had a drink or two the night before.
2nd doctor pushed me in direction of some vague benign fasciculation/cramp syndrome, and poo-pooed the 1st EMG. This explains cramps and fasciculations, but very large patella reflex? Possibly the yawning thing?
As far as my shreads of hope go. Double vision and tingling/pins-needles don't seem to be classic ALS (although pins/needles is a ALS symptom on Wiki I think, and a few other places). Also, as I heard a millions times, "I'm too young". As far as I'm concerned, if I failed a EMG on 4 limbs and Hawking got it at 21, I'm gonna fear the worst. The 2nd EMG, though, has now put me in a huge limbo situation, where I dont know what my future is, and I'm living in a bit of a zombiefied state.
Please help..