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ducksoup

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Loved one DX
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Hi everyone,

First of all, I would like to thank those who reply to this post in advance.

I would just like to ask for you help in figuring out if my symptoms are early signs of ALS. About a month ago, I started feeling a sharp, constant pain on my lower back as well as buttocks that was followed by leg cramps on my right leg. This eventually resulted in stiffness in my upper thigh and pain radiating from my thigh to my lower leg. The pain is heightened when I walk and stronger when I sit. I also had a hard time walking due to the numbness a felt in my leg. Note, though, that I can still tip toe, but with some effort. As a result of the numbness, my foot also started to feel really "loose" when I walk. At about the same time, my knees started to feel painful and would sometimes buckle when I stand for a long time. I assumed it was because of the weakness in my right calf as my knees were taking most of the load of my weight from my calf.

While this was happening, I also was starting to experience pain on my arms near my elbows and on my shoulder blades. It's the kind of pain you get after lifting weights at the gym. I also started to feel tingling on my right leg as well as my fingers on both my hands. Finally, I noticed widespread and strong fasiculations on both my right and left leg, my arms, stomach and face. Once I saw my leg jerk strongly while at rest.

Finally, I noticed that I was out of breathe lately. I am not sure if this related in any way to my other symptoms but I am putting this out there in case it's important.

At this point, I should also tell everyone that my mother was diagnosed with ALS last year. She was initially diagnosed with a herniated disc. She was misdiagnosed then was told that she had Parkinsonism. Finally, a third neuro then diagnosed her with ALS. By this time, both my mother's leg had no longer functioned. She had also lost the function of her right arm. She could still speak clearly.

After seeing what my mother had gone through to get an accurate diagnosis, I began to feel a bit anxious about my symptoms. So, I recently consulted my mother's neuro. At the clinic, the doctor did the usual strength test. He noted that he saw no signs of weakness on my legs or arms but did note that my affected leg -- the right -- did not respond when hit by his hammer. He decided to conducted an EMG-NC and MRI.

I am sharing my EMG-NC findings to help you better assess my condition:

The findings are suggestive of an acute bilateral lower lumbar radiculopathy affecting the L5-S1 roots.

However, what is unusual in this case is the increased insertional pattern noted in the higher lumbar paraspinals (up to L1-L2 root innervation) which are not the usual sites for a radiculopathic process. This may be due to increased muscle membrane irritability from toxic-metabolic causes(?), a beginning caude equina syndrome(?). The electrophysiologic criteria for a diffuse motor neuron disease are not fulfilled at this time. Changes consistent with a proximal myopathy are also not see.


The report also noted increased insertional activity in my left C5-6.

On my absent reflexes, he noted that "absent bilateral S1 reflex could be a normal variant or may be due to mild bilateral S1 radiculopathy.

Upon seeing the findings, my doctor ordered an MRI to confirm the report. The MRI findings are as follows:

Lumbosacral spine:

Desiccated disks, L4-L5 and L5-S1

Posterior disk bulge, L5-S1 with thecal sac indentation and annular tear.

Straightened lumbosacral spine.

Cervical spine:

The cervical cord, including the craniocervical junction is intact.

Focal disc bulges are seen C4-C5 and C5-C6 indenting the thecal sac. The spinal canal and exit foramina are not narrowed.

Beginning disc desiccation at C3-C4, C5-C6 and C6-C7 are observed.

The ligamentum flavum and posterior longitudinal ligament are not hypertrophic.

The rest of the intervertebal disc, vertebral bodies, pedicles, laminae, transerverse and spinous processes, atlantoociptal atlantoaxial, uncovertebral and facet joints are unremarkable.

The pre and paraspinal soft tissues are unremarkable.

The cervical lordosis is maintained.


My doctor's findings as of today: a herniated disc was causing the weakness in my leg. As for my arm, he wasn't really sure what was causing it except for that beginning disc dessication noted in my report.

My questions now:

1) Can a herniated disc cause the kind of weakness and loss in balance that I am now experiencing? Can it also explain the extreme pain in my knees? I asked my doctor about this and his answer was a slightly tentative "yes" but he was puzzled by my knees buckling.

2) Can beginning disc dessication cause numbness and that throbbing pain in my arms? So far, I have not noted any weakness in my arms. Nor are my reflexes affected. I can still button my shirt, catch a ball with it. I am concerned though because of a story I read about pain in arm being this person's initial symptom:

Richard Is Living With ALS: Pain In My Left Hand

3) I am puzzled by that last sentence in my EMG-NC which said: the increased insertional pattern noted in the higher lumbar paraspinals (up to L1-L2 root innervation) which are not the usual sites for a radiculopathic process. I asked my doctor what that meant and he mentioned that it was not something to be concerned about. Would like to know if somebody here can shed light on this.

Given my findings and my symptoms, I would like to ask you what you think. My particular concern are my arms as my doctor did not really give a conclusive answer to this problem.

Looking forward to your response. Again, thank you for reading this.
 
Hi, DS, sorry to hear about your mom; we are happy to support her and you in any possible way.

The MRI shows damage in your lower and upper spine. The damage in your upper spine could explain the arm problems and as mentioned the lumbar spine damage could affect your legs. You should be followed by a neurologist because there is a possibility of a different kind of spine disorder (cauda equina) or toxic exposure. Do you work or live near any kind of toxins?

I would consider physical therapy at a spine clinic to see if your symptoms can be alleviated, and to help you do the right kinds of movement to help your back. If the damage worsens, interventional procedures could be considered.

That the EMG did not show a motor neuron disease pattern is reassuring, but I understand why you are anxious. So I would see how far treatment for this radiculopathy can take you.

Best,
Laurie
 
Hi, DS, sorry to hear about your mom; we are happy to support her and you in any possible way.

The MRI shows damage in your lower and upper spine. The damage in your upper spine could explain the arm problems and as mentioned the lumbar spine damage could affect your legs. You should be followed by a neurologist because there is a possibility of a different kind of spine disorder (cauda equina) or toxic exposure. Do you work or live near any kind of toxins?

I would consider physical therapy at a spine clinic to see if your symptoms can be alleviated, and to help you do the right kinds of movement to help your back. If the damage worsens, interventional procedures could be considered.

That the EMG did not show a motor neuron disease pattern is reassuring, but I understand why you are anxious. So I would see how far treatment for this radiculopathy can take you.

Best,
Laurie

Thanks, Laurie for the very prompt response.

To the best of my knowledge, I am not exposed to any kind of toxin. I work in the office most of the time so my workmates would probably be exposed to it as well.

I'll take your advice and treat it as a spine problem. What bothers me the most is the twitching and jerking. I'll disregard that for now as you said. It just might be anxiety over my leg and arms.

As for my mother, it has been a roller coaster of a journey for us. She's been misdiagnosed a a couple of times. In total, we saw five neurologists before we got a diagnosis of ALS.

It has been very rough for her as well as some of the meds needed are not available locally.

As of the moment, we are giving her as much care and attention as she needs. But she still manages to run her own little business.
 
I have a weird symptom that may be unrelated to my back problems but would like to check if this is the onset of MND.

For the past two weeks now, I've been having a hard time breathing. I'm easily out of breath when I walk a few meters. I am also having swallowing problems. Just yesterday, I almost choked on my lunch. And, I have a problem with my tongue not being able to say certain words -- the word "super" for instance. It takes a lot of effort to actually say these words. Jaw muscles are also a bit tired and tight most of the time.

My speech hasn't gotten to a point where I've started slurring but it seems to be going there. Also noticed that no matter how much water I drink, my mouth can't seem to produce enough saliva to keep my mouth from being moist.
 
These are non-specific symptoms. They could honestly all be ascribed to anxiety about your mom. In addition to PT, you may want to consider some form of counseling to help you come to terms with her diagnosis (and your back problems). You will want to be at your best to help her through this.
 
I would also consider some relaxation method....meditation, yoga, tai chi....
 
These are non-specific symptoms. They could honestly all be ascribed to anxiety about your mom. In addition to PT, you may want to consider some form of counseling to help you come to terms with her diagnosis (and your back problems). You will want to be at your best to help her through this.


Thanks, Laurie/gooseberry. Will certainly take both of your advice. I'm also seeing an ENT soon -- might be related to my tongue or throat muscles. My speech has definitely changed according to friends, family and co-workers. It's a bit nasal now. There's something wrong with my tongue. Having a hard time saying words. And, I can't form words that start with the letter "m" and "s". Drinking water is a bit tough too as my tongue is not flexing the way it should. I can still whistle, though.

Other things that are strange: I can't remember familiar names and places. I seem to be in a daze and my mind seems a bit cloudy. Lastly, when talking, I often find myself stuttering then stopping mid-sentence before I can continue my train of thought. It definitely takes some effort to complete my sentence. Strangely, typing my thoughts is not as hard as saying them. Admittedly, I am stressed and anxious so I am filing this under "anxiety" for now.

I don't think it's ALS but it certainly is something.
 
Just a quick update. Hope someone can chime in. Still not thinking it's ALS but growing concerned as the days go by.

1) Recently hospitalized for a infection in my throat. It was caused by forcing myself to swallow food. I've been having swallowing problems of late.

2) My speech has now become sibilant.

3) My arms have weakened noticeably. I can still pick up objects like my car keys. But I can't seem to keep my arms up while reading a book or using my phone. I also have problems texting. It's a bit hard to control my fingers when I text.

I still pass the neuro's strength test - the one where he pushes and pulls your arms.

My neuro (who is also my mother's nuero) wants to rule everything out before saying the three letter word. He asked me undergo a brain MRI and a few more blood tests, including a bun creatinine. He's trying to rule out MS at this point. Although my cervical and lumbar MRIs did not show any plaques -- not sure what that means -- so the chances of MS are slim.

Does any of this sound familiar? I've heard about Myasthenia Gravis. The things I read about it on the internet are confusing because it mimics ALS. I really have no idea how it's any different from ALS. So I have no idea if this is what I actually have.

If anyone can allay my fears, it would be helpful. I have to admit I am anxious but not to the point where I've lost my senses.

Hoping for the best.
 
Did you start PT?

I would take the EMG literally. You seem to be ignoring it. It says you have a spine problem, as does the MRI. It just doesn't match with speech, breathing and swallowing issues that have arisen so powerfully and suddenly. I would think you would still be in the hospital if these issues were all apparent to your medical team. There are several other statements that do not match up for me.

There are specific tests for MG so if he thinks you have it, he can test you directly.

It's barely possible that you are on a productive diagnostic path, but the odds are you are only wasting time that your mom might like to have with you. I would test that hypothesis fully before succumbing to anxiety. And if you are seriously ill, time is not your friend, either. You can't change the outcome and it sounds like no testing is planned, for say, tomorrow. So make that a good day to remember with your mom, who we know has a terminal disease, as if you were not ill at all.

Best,
Laurie
 
Thanks, Laurie. I really do find a lot of comfort in your advice.

I'm on my second PT session for my back. Pain has been managed but still weak in both my legs. I don't know how many sessions I actually need for the strength to return. I've also started doing regular meditation.

Just strange that I'm getting all of these problems at this point. I've always been very wary of ALS since 2007. At that time, I experienced very painful muscle cramps accompanied by non-stop twitching. This is how I actually discovered this forum. Rather tragic that back in 2007 when I was telling my mother about my symptoms, she came up to me and told me that she also experienced the same thing -- muscle twitching and cramping -- and that it just might be electrolyte imbalance. I took a lot of comfort in her words and dismissed my symptoms. I never went to a doctor and just started taking supplements. The twitches and cramps would return then disappear. With my mom's dx: it made me really sad to recollect that period in my life. And it made me anxious as well. My nerve problems as a result of my back isn't helping allay fears. And these other things that have no explanation are disconcerting as well.

Thanks, Laurie for being very understanding. I know how PALS hate it when people come here panicking about something that doesn't sound like ALS. But having a first hand account of how devastating the illness is to the mind, body and, especially, the spirit can leave even the most level headed person rattled.

On your advice on a different thread re: pulmonary testing. She did her first one recently without my having to tell the doctor. All is good along with her other vital organs. Which just tells me that I should trust her doctor.
 
Duck, you keep saying you're experiencing more and more ALS symptoms, but you're not. You've not described ALS at all.
 
Duck, you keep saying you're experiencing more and more ALS symptoms, but you're not. You've not described ALS at all.

Thanks, Atsugi. You say it with a lot of conviction. I find that very reassuring.

Curious, though, how'd you get the ID, Atsugi. It sounds very Asian.
 
Hi Laurie,

Just wanted to update you on my condition as you have been gracious enough to reply to all of my posts.

My company has asked me to go on indefinite sick leave as my speech is already nasal.

I've read about pbp. From what I've read, I may have it. Did some quick searches on here and most of the people diagnosed with it had a tough time figuring out at first.

My siblings have taken over care for our mom. I've also asked for a speech pathologist's help in assessing my situation. Don't know if that's a good course of action. I will also be seeking a second opinion from another neuro this week.

Next week is my birthday week. I just find it highly cruel that I got progressively worse on my birthday.
 
Asking for help

Hi everyone,

I've been posting on a different thread about my symptoms. Just wanted to check if someone here can help figure out a course of action.

Two weeks back, I suddenly developed some difficulty speaking. It started with some words that I had difficulty pronouncing then it progressed to a speech that sounds as if I have a cold. This nasally sounding voice is constant but is very noticeable wirh some words and phrases, particularly when a vowel is paired with the letter "l" or "n". Saying "la-la-la" is incredibly difficult for me. I also noticed that it worsens when I am really tired.

I don't know if this is related but my arms have been weak as of late. I can't keep my phone up when texting. I've also been twitching constantly over my entire body.

My neuro tells me no ALS as my EMGs-NCV done on my shoulders, arms and legs don't point to that right now.

I've read up on pbp. I'd like to know more about it from the people here. And does the same process for diagnosing ALS apply for PBP. As of today, my company has asked me to take an indefinite leave to sort out this speech issue.

I would like to ask the members here how they came to their diagnosis. How the fast the illness progressed from the time they first noticed symptoms. What were the early symptoms and what steps did you take to get to the final diagnosis.

I should also let you know that my mother has been diagnosed with MND.

Hope someone here can share their experience and knowledge.

Thanks.
 
DS, in this thread you are discussing your own concerns about your own MND, and we do not allow more than one thread at a time per person in this category. So I moved your second thread to this one.

Let us know what the SP and 2nd neuro say.

Best,
Laurie
 
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