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act2540

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Greetings,

As you can see below, I am sorry, but my post is long. If you don’t feel you have the current patience to read it, understood. Please only continue if you do. You will see from this post that I have thought long and hard about my symptoms before considering this post, and it’s not just an anxiety-induced whim. At the very least, I feel my anxiety is understandable – hopefully at the very most as well. If what I have below isn’t valid enough for me to worry about MND…I would be thankful for that fact, and sincerely apologize for wasting anyone’s time.

That said, it’s my anxiety about ALS that gives me all the more respect and compassion for those of you suffering through the real thing. I’m sure many of these statements from the worriers come across as hollow, but read it as you like...My heart truly goes out to those of you affected by this, directly or indirectly, whether you help with my fears or not. I have more than just one symptom, an EMG that was not 100% clean, and both LMN and UMN signs. I’ll admit there is a set of answers I want to hear, and that some of my fear has been driven by Dr. Google. But I realize no one here can diagnose. I also have a follow-up with my neuro in a few weeks that may provide answers on some of what I pose here.

Here are reasons I feel I may have it...I've listed them in order of significance. For symptoms, I’ve put in parentheses the sequence in which they occurred.

1) Weakness (neuro-confirmed) in a variety of places, but most pronounced in left leg. First observed by neuro two years ago before I noticed it myself. (2) Over time, I’ve noticed the left leg feels like it might give out and starts wobbling. (3)

2) The same leg is also very jumpy, confirmed by a reflex test over a year ago (4). Over the last two weeks, it's started jerking on occasion when at rest. The knee also buckles inward a bit when standing still for long periods of time. (7)

3) Constant twitching in both feet, but mostly left, for at least 2-3 years. It was the first symptom that prompted me to go to the neuro. (1) Over time, it’s spreading up into my ankles, shins, and calves. (5) Developing into cramps lately. (6)

4) As aforementioned, my EMG (just over two weeks ago) was not 100% clean in that leg (they only did left leg and arm). Neuro said it “could be” early-stage MND.

5) I’ve had a battery of tests focused on other possible causes that are mostly normal. The other causes they leave on the list don’t seem to fit my profile (more on this below).

However, I’m hoping this is a valid set of reasons why I may not have it. I’d of course love any of you to affirm that, or debunk any of the qualifiers that are based mostly on my Googlings.

1) Age - 28

2) Twitching was easily the first symptom I noticed.

3) There are still a number of other possible causes on the table, though I’ve listed qualifiers for each one below.

Pinched nerve – Mentioned by neuro after EMG. I’ve noticed that many of my habitual sitting positions place my right leg on or over the left, placing particular pressure on my ankle. I’ve just considered this since my EMG, so haven’t had the chance to pose that to the neuro yet. However, I understand peripheral nerve issues wouldn’t cause some of my symptoms. If so, any pinched nerve I have would have to be in my spinal area. I haven’t had any spinal MRIs at this point.

B12 deficiency - 100% confirmed I have it. But my understanding is its symptoms present equally across left and right, and more absent reflexes than brisk. This was just found recently since the EMG, and I’m going to discuss it more with the neuro on my follow-up in a few weeks.

Anxiety – As mentioned above. Again, I don’t know that the symptoms would progress like this, or be as asymmetrical, if it were the cause.

Neuropathy –The increased severity in one limb and the brisk reflex don’t suggest it.

MS – Has been mostly ruled out based on clean spinal tap and NCV. MRIs mostly unremarkable, but with “inconclusive” microlesions.

4) I experience tingling that often accompanies the twitching. But again, that could just be anxiety, and seems to just be worse during cold weather.

5) After over two years of symptoms, I am still fully functional, at least for now. I can also walk on heels, toes, stand on the weak leg, etc.

6) EMG comments from the neuro –

He said even though it could be MND, he only saw issues in one muscle group - the left calf. Said he’d expect issues in the others. But I’ve since read that EMG might only show up in one muscle group in early-stage MND, so I’m afraid he was only referring to late-stage.

If I’m recalling right, he didn’t see anything troubling on the foot in the EMG, which was my first spot of frequent twitching. So I’m hoping that’s a good sign.

7) Though the twitching is fairly constant, its severity comes and goes. For example, sometimes it’s better when I wake up in the morning. The nature also differs at times. I get the fine fluttery kind, and the more pronounced irregular type as well.

8) Symmetry – The twitching and cramping are always worse on the left, but often present in both legs at the same time. I also have had different degrees of weakness in my hands and arms as well, as observed by neuro. Not sure how significant that distribution is.

9) Both weakness and twitching have gotten noticeably worse since the EMG. I’m hopeful that just points to anxiety.

10) I was tested for Babinski in both feet, but wasn’t told the results. I was honestly too scared to ask after the PA did it.

I’m also worried my anxiety may have thrown off the results from tensing up the muscles, or that the PA did it wrong (she’d been on the job less than a year).

If a troublesome Babinski is something I would not have failed to notice on my own despite the above, I’d consider that a huge win. I just don’t know.

11) Other less frequent symptoms, that if related, point away from MND. I don’t get them frequently enough to be 100% confident they’re from the same cause...Tremors, dizziness, headaches, blurred vision, and less regular twitches in other places.


If you’ve had the patience to read this, I’ll shut up now and let you chime in with any thoughts. My true thanks to anyone who has taken the time, and my apologies if it doesn't pass the smell test. My thoughts and prayers will continue to be with you all.
 
Not surprised you're worried- but you seem to be getting really good care. You are young- which makes ALS much less of a contender. AND you've had symptoms for 2 years without significant progression. I'd say those are good things!

Being relatively new at this ALS thing myself, the only thing I can suggest, is that you request a copy of your EMG report and ask WRIGHT to have a look and interpret. He's our resident guru.

Wish I could help you more- but more knowledgeable members will likely pop in soon.

Merry Christmas- try to enjoy the holiday.
 
I don't know about als but I have mitochondrial myopathy which was diagnosed with a muscle biopspy. some of your symptoms are like mine,but not all. I have neuropathy in my feet which started in the left foot andwas 3 years like that then it started in the right foot. I have twitches, spasms, cramps, fatigue, dizziness, and headaches.

I had mris, cat scans, mulitple blood tests, and emg/nvc. Only the emg/nvc came back goofy. I have muscle weakness in arms, legs, hips, shoulders and neck. After 5 years they did a muscle biopspy.

I don't know if this helps or makes things for you worse. Just know we are here to listen and offer advice. I wish you peace.
 
If its been over 6 months since your emg, then maybe it's time for a repeat. I had them every year until my symptoms and signs went away.
 
Thanks all for your respective feedbacks. ottawa/vickim, I'm real sorry about your recent diagnoses. Alyoop, since you don't have a diagnosis date, I hope your diagnosis change qualifies as good news.

vickim, no worries, you didn't make me worse. It gives me another possibility to think about. I haven't read much about your condition, but from looking at a couple things, I'm not sure if its much or any better than ALS.

Alyoop, I will plan on asking for my EMG results at my neuro follow-up in a few weeks...Might give me a chance to pick his brain on it a bit more. I probably won't even have the courage to ask for them before then. I'm just so scared to look at them, or even to have my reflexes tested again. I know, that's counter intuitive when you want answers. I do suffer from generalized anxiety as well (like no one here can tell :) ), which doesn't help.

wright, if you happen to wander in here in the meantime...I've snooped around some of your other posts after ottawa girl's suggestion. I may follow her advice once I get it and bounce the results to you for any input. I gather that you have a lot of people here that already do that, so maybe just a heads up that I might add my name to the waiting list. I'd be particularly interested to know, since I'm twitching mostly throughout my left foot/ankle/calf area, if the EMG would have shown abnormalities in all those areas as opposed to just my calf. I don't think I was twitching quite as bad that day...So not sure if that would cause the EMG results to be less pronounced, and/or if that inconsistency of the twitching might just be a good sign by itself.

As I wake up today, I again have mad twitching in both feet, and now my tongue is twitching up a storm...Bad I guess, but maybe good since I continue to get it in multiple locations and am still functional. Sorry folks if I'm letting my emotions and anxiety flow over here...I feel I've got enough reason to whine about my fears, but I don't have much business doing that when so many of you are suffering through your own challenges.

I thank you all again. Hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas.
 
HI Act

First, there are things that need to be checked before you even have ALS as a contender to worry about.

Twitching just isn't a normal 'first sign' of ALS. It normally happens when the muscle is dying--and that corresponds with findings on the EMG in the limbs/areas where the twitching is happening--no matter the cause of muscle death.

For instance, my hand was weak and had loss of function months before the twitching started in it. That twitching was followed by atrophy rather quickly.

Babinski sign is not as reliable as you may think. First, many people know what the test checks--ie: toes up is bad. So, when a doctor checks, if their anxiety is high--their toes go 'up' even though it's not something they are consciously doing. So, no, I'm not saying that they are faking. In a certain subset--they always have a positive Babinski...and it's only ONE test of several, and accompanied by other abnormal clinical findings, such as hyper-reflexia, clonus and spasticity normally.

Second--with issues just seen in one muscle group--your calf-- the issue is very, very possibly something to do with something pinched either in the spine--or even somewhere in the juncture in the knee area. (Think of carpal tunnel or cubital tunnel of the knee instead of the elbow)

Without a spinal MRI there is just no way they can have ruled out a spinal issue.

Without a normal Brain MRI, and with your age, there is not a very high liklihood that MS would be entirely ruled out if you have a large number of upper motor neuron signs with it.

Likely with two years of symptoms--you'd have sustained SOME level of disability by this time. Something more than a wobbly knee.

That last part you posted--Tremors, dizziness, headaches, blurred vision --absolutely positively are NOT caused by ALS.

ALS affects motor neurons, thus muscles. NOT eyes....however, MS can affect the eyes in a variety of ways.

Tremor is also not associated normally with ALS. Not sure what you have that 'tremors'.

With an abnormal B-12---that will need to be corrected and may solve some of your issues as well. Especially things like 'tingling' (tingling is also NOT ALS)

So, while you do have cause for concern...if the doctor has found weakness in one of your limbs...I do seriously doubt that ALS is going to be the answer. To be quite honest, I'm very, very surprised he'd have even mentioned it as a possibility given your age and the symptoms you're having that in no way resemble ALS. In my opinion, it should have never been mentioned to you when there are so many tests that have NOT been done---and when only ONE limb was even checked via EMG. I'd be livid if it was my doctor that terrified me with such a thing without a VERY good reason!

ALS almost always starts DISTALLY---meaning a hand or a foot. Not a calf or not a shoulder area. )(unless it's bulbar, of course)

ALS at your age would be very rare--without a family history. There are cases of ALS seen earlier when there is family history, it seems, but you don't report a parent with ALS.

So, to be honest, at this point--I'd say that you should just let them continue to see what is going on. Let them get the B-12 levels where they need to be. (And check to be sure that it's just low--and that you are able to absorb B-12 normally--they are two different tests) For example, I do not absorb B-12 properly, AND my B-12 is low. My daughter, your age, by the way, has low B-12 as well (and many of your symptoms, believe it or not) but her absorption is fine.

In my daughters case, we are almost sure her issues stem from an issue in her back, or a nerve in her leg from the way she sits at her computer. Her leg flat gives out on her--at the knee.

I'd be very surprised if a PA doesn't know how to properly do a Babinski test---but my question is why didn't a neuro do it? Have you SEEN a neuro? Clinical weakness and an exam for such should be done by a neurologist if you ask me.

When I went to a neurosurgeon to see if my arm was dying due to my neck--the first thing he did was order an EMG--and the second thing he did was refer me to a neuromuscular specialist when he determined my issue was not in my neck. He's a qualified neurosurgeon---but he didn't feel as though my care was in his area of expertise.

All in all, I think you have every reason to be optimistic. Enjoy the holiday and try to put ALS out of your mind. By all means let Wright see your EMG report, but I really seriously doubt ALS is going to be your answer, thankfully.

Good luck to you and happy holidays.
 
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notme, thank you immensely for all of that feedback. To help clarify, I have seen an actual neuro...Three seperate ones actually, at the same practice. The full reasons why are a long story...But I haven't been seeing them at the same time...One after the other.

I didn't blame them for letting the PAs cut their teeth on me. My ALS fears, once vicious and errantly fueled by Google, were diminishing...I still had twitching, but I could even sprint out a groundball base hit in summer softball, and run quite normally on the treadmill. Plus the tingling didn't ad up. Then the EMG happened two weeks ago, and now the fear is back with a serious vengeance. Since that time, the weakness and twitching are worse, and I've developed the leg jerk. I just hope the timing is not coincidental.

You are correct on the familial history - none that I'm aware of, and certainly not in either parent. As for the tremors, they are in my wrists on occasion. Just not frequent enough for me to be confident in their association.

If you don't mind me asking, do your daughter's similarities with mine include the brisk reflexes/jerking as well? Once I got the LMN signs on the EMG, the reflexes are the only thing I can't explain away based on what I currently know. I figure the B12 could cause the symmetrical twitching/tingling. My sitting positions could be responsible for the left-side weakness. That might even worsen the twitching there, and be causing the LMN signs on the EMG...Then I get to the reflex and the jerking, for which I have to hope for the pinched nerve in the spine, or something else that isn't pathological.

Happy holidays to you as well, and I wish you all the best. Thank you again for the time and expertise.
 
What did your EMG show? I apologize but if a post is too long I don't read much of it.
 
Hi Ms. Pie...Understood, and no apology needed. The short was that it was slightly abnormal in my calf muscle, and the neuro said it "could" mean a number of things. But when I asked about MND, he said "It could be the early stages of MND," without hesitation.

He then qualified it by saying he'd still expect MND to present with abnormal readings all over, which it did not, as opposed to just once muscle group. I've since learned that that's not necessarily the case, and that it can show up in just one muscle group early on. So between his initial comments, his qualifying comments, and what I've since read, I'm a bit confused.

They did a couple spots in my left leg (where most of my twitching occurs), left arm, and a few spots in my lower back. I actually forgot about mentioning the back in the above posts...So I'm really hoping that doesn't debunk the pinched nerve theory, because the back was normal.
 
NO, the fact that the EMG was normal in your back doens't debunk the spinal issue at all.

Spinal issues cause issues in the arms or legs--depending on what part of the spine is affected. Each vertebra has a set of nerves that branch out from it--from the neck down the spine. The cervical affect arms. The Lumbar affect the spine.

Upper Lumbar issues can affect the thigh areas...lower issues the lower legs and feet sometimes. All depends on what is going on--IF something is going on.

I still think you can relax---and let them sort you out. It's a time consuming process...I'm at almost two years.
 
Thanks again notme. I'm real sorry for the drawn out two years...I am thankful for your feedback, but I lament the position from which you can give it. At the very least, everyone's feedback might help me to enjoy Christmas with the family more than I otherwise would have. I'm going to step away and try to put this out of my mind for awhile.

Your time and feedback has been truly appreciated, and I'll keep everyone posted if I hear anything new from the neuro. A sincere thanks again to everyone, and happy holidays.
 
I pray that you enjoy the love and joy of family and friends.

I pray for you to have peace.

I pray you have a positive outcome at your doctor appointment.

Merry Christmas.
 
Happy New Year everyone. Thank you all again for the well wishes, and vickim, I appreciate the prayers. A number of changes in the last week I thought I'd share...At least some I hope might be good, but I’m not sure. I fear this might be where I just become another anxiety-riddled visitor getting on everyone's nerves. I'm truly sorry if that's the case.

I've asked my neuro's office to provide me my whole file for review including EMG, which I will get once the holidays have passed. As before, any feedback on the below is appreciated while I wait for those results. Understood if you want to refrain altogether, or wait until EMG results.

1) My neuro had prescribed Neurontin to help with the twitching, which I started in mid-November (it hasn't helped). A gradual upping in dosage seemed to coincide with my jerking movements, so I called my neuro's office to let them know the day after Christmas...I learned my dosage had errantly been tripled. They backed me down from 900 mg to 600 mg/day for two days, and now I've been at 300 mg/day since Friday.

The jerking hasn't gone - particularly when going to sleep, I'm getting some fierce jerks in various places. So now I'm not quite sure what to think – if it was the Neurontin or not, or if they could be indicative of MND. I’m assuming they are myoclonus, and I've read conflicting things on whether that could result from MND.

2) My weakness has gotten worse, but it still doesn’t seem to be a weakness typical of MND. No major disturbances in walking, walking on toes/heels are still fine. But the weakness in my left leg is VERY evident after standing stationary for longer periods of time – it quakes pretty bad after awhile, and literally looks like it's about to buckle inward and snap off. People have noticed over the holidays. For the first time, it's also causing pain in my knee. I haven't seen any MND stories that report this type of weakness without loss of function, so I'm trying to be optimistic about that. But its change in the last week is definitely noticeable. If not for my twitching and brisk reflex, I’d probably brush it off as a minor knee issue and see if my GP wants to refer me to an orthopedist or something.

3) Can I ask you folks the normal timeframe in getting actual EMG results? I was trying to take the instant feedback from the neuro after mine as reason for optimism - only one bad reading, instead of several. But I've since learned that EMG results might not be completely evident until more detailed analysis after – which I of course haven't gotten. If that's just bunk, then my bad for succumbing to the Google itch.

Thank you anyone for any feedback. I will put up EMG results once I have them.
 
My neuro told me right after the emg that I had neurop athy in my feet. But he said he wanted to go over the numbers and give me a more detailed report at the next appt. I did not ask at my next appt because the number would not mean anything to me. I have had 3 emg/nvc s and 2 were by one neuro and the neuro I see now did his own because he doesn't know how the other dr did his emg. Which there was a difference between the way the dr s did the emg s. I had a muscle biopspy which is how I got my diagnosed. That took between 3-4 weeks to get the results.
I too am on gabbapentin(sp generic) 6oo mg a day. No it does not take away all the jerks, stinging, itches or crawly feelings but it does help. I have been on it for over a year. If I miss a dose I am a wiggling, jumping mess. I don't miss very often.

Don't know if I helped or hindered. Try to stay away from the dr g o o g l e, it only causes more anxiety.
I wish you peace.
 
Thanks vickim. Don't worry about hindering, I know the answers are of no value if they're not honest ones. If anything, you may have helped. It's good to know I'm not the only one with adverse affects that coincide with the Neurontin. But of course, I wish for your sake that you couldn't confirm that from your experiences.
 
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