Plantar Reflex (Babinski)

[jfit]

Just a quick question for anyone who knows anything about the plantar reflex. At my neuro exam I did not have the reflex when he did the test but when asked to wiggle my toes back and forth (which took me a great deal of concentration to achieve) after a little bit my big toe flexed up and the rest fanned and went down which is the result I believe they look for with the Plantar reflex test? What does this mean, do I have the reflex even though it happened when wiggling my toes, the neuro didn't say anything to me about this.

Also for those diagnosed, did you have tendon pain/discomfort as a early sign in the limbs that were affected first and did the first affected limb before actual weakness set in become easily fatigued and or heavy like by lifting 1kg tub of butter a few times or brushing teeth?

My neuro has now said he would not rule out ALS, but is hoping to find something else......

Thanks for any help

PS I did do a search on the site for this but found nothing relating to wiggling your toes and getting this response.

 

[HelenL]

Hi jfit, I never had the babinsky sign in either of my feet... sounds like your toes are already impacted by loss of muscle. In my experience, I had a lot of cramping pain in my left leg before I knew what was going on... thought I was having charlie horses. In retrospect, the cramping was probably the muscle dying before the atrophy set in.

I hope you find answers that lead you away from this diagnosis.

 

[glupavomomiche]

A Babinski reflex has nothing to do with your toes going up and fanning out when you wiggle them. You do not have a Babinski sign. The symptoms you describe do not sound like the ALS that I, or any other PALS I know, have experienced.

These types of questions belong on the "Do I have ALS?" forum, where you were posting previously. Hopefully a moderator will move your post to the appropriate section ASAP.

 

[Toto's Dorothy]

Hi J,

I'm not saying you have ALS or not, since I have not seen your other posts, but I like Helen did not have the Babinski reflex. My 3 middle toes on my right foot have been in a permanent downward contracture for several years. The left leg started about a year or so ago. Doctors stopped trying to get the reflex about a 18 months ago (give or take).

 

[notme]

It's a reflex that is illicited by stroking the bottom of the sole. Not by your flexing your toes. It's not normal in adults--though it doesn't mean ALS if it's there. Other causes are possible.

 

[michelleRN]

I've usually seen it in places of a spinal cord (cervical or high thoracic) or brain pathology, not ALS. A true Babinski that is, which isn't what you've described.

 

[jfit]

I've usually seen it in places of a spinal cord (cervical or high thoracic) or brain pathology, not ALS. A true Babinski that is, which isn't what you've described.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I know it is not a true babinski, but I did read there are variations so I was just wondering if the toe wiggling was one of them. I do have problems with my upper cervical although nothing has ever been found on cts and mris I know there is a problem there I get pins and needless, pain, numbness, dizziness, arrhythmia if I hit the wrong place on my neck when rubbing or turning but the doctors still just shrug it off as there is nothing on the tests.

Yesterday I broke down and had a good cry, well today I am paying for it as my stomach muscles feel like I have done 1000 situps, whatever this is it sucks.

Thanks again for your replies. I will update after I see the new neuro my old one has referred me to.

Julie

 

[TedH5]

Julie what did your Dr say when your toes fanned out when you wiggled them as you described? (my non profeesional medical belief is that the babinski sign must be a result to a stimulation of the bottom of your foot in a certain direction / fashion not by wiggling your toes)

 

[trfogey]

I've usually seen it in places of a spinal cord (cervical or high thoracic) or brain pathology, not ALS. A true Babinski that is, which isn't what you've described.

michelleRN,

If you hang around the Do I Have ALS? forum for long, you'll find that twitching folks like jfit are quite obsessed with the Babinsky and the Hoffman's sign. Don't know why, but they are.

 

[jfit]

A Babinski reflex has nothing to do with your toes going up and fanning out when you wiggle them. You do not have a Babinski sign. The symptoms you describe do not sound like the ALS that I, or any other PALS I know, have experienced.

These types of questions belong on the "Do I have ALS?" forum, where you were posting previously. Hopefully a moderator will move your post to the appropriate section ASAP.

I wasn't asking do I have it I was simply asking a question about a reflex that I thought some of the PALS, on here would have some knowledge about.

Ted, the neuro just sat with his poker face he didn't say anything, except that he was going to refer me to a different neuro, which I know is in charge of the MND clinic at the hospital I am going to, but he also treats a lot of MS and Parkinson people to so I don't know.

Thank you to the people who were nice enough to answer and give me their opinions based on their knowledge.

As for the others, don't get me wrong there are lot of really nice helpful people on here, but there are also some real snide, snotty, smart ass plain nasty people to, so don't worry I will not be posting on this site again, there are far more civilized forums where people don't make you feel like a prick for posting your concerns and worries, I guess if they don't want to see people carrying on about twitching then they just don't read the posts......gee that's an idea isn't it.

 

[trfogey]

As for the others, don't get me wrong there are lot of really nice helpful people on here, but there are also some real snide, snotty, smart ass plain nasty people to, so don't worry I will not be posting on this site again, there are far more civilized forums where people don't make you feel like a prick for posting your concerns and worries, I guess if they don't want to see people carrying on about twitching then they just don't read the posts......gee that's an idea isn't it.

The administrators of the board created the Do I Have ALS? forum as a place where the undiagnosed could ask their questions. That way, PALS, CALS, and other members who had no interest in reading or responding to those same undiagnosed would simply avoid that forum and members who were interested in helping the undiagnosed would know where to find those in need.

Most of the time, the system works. Sometimes, it doesn't. Sorry we didn't meet your expectations.

 

[notme]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I know it is not a true babinski, but I did read there are variations so I was just wondering if the toe wiggling was one of them. I do have problems with my upper cervical although nothing has ever been found on cts and mris I know there is a problem there I get pins and needless, pain, numbness, dizziness, arrhythmia if I hit the wrong place on my neck when rubbing or turning but the doctors still just shrug it off as there is nothing on the tests.

Yesterday I broke down and had a good cry, well today I am paying for it as my stomach muscles feel like I have done 1000 situps, whatever this is it sucks.

Thanks again for your replies. I will update after I see the new neuro my old one has referred me to.

Julie

Hon--pins and needles can be as simple as a pinched nerve or a panic attack. Arrhythmia isn't caused by cervical issues--it's caused by heart issues. There are several things that can cause them--stress being only one of them. Everyone has the occasional skipped beat--some feel them--most don't.

True arrhythmia--skipped beats--very rapid heart rates--that are consistent or last long periods of time can be things like Atrial Fibrillation or PSVT. A neuro won't find these issues--a cardiologist will.

I post this because I have Atrial Fib--and it took time to find. Why? because I was young and having symptoms too similar to panic or anxiety. It was only found because I INSISTED on testing. My heart rate skyrocketed so high on the treadmill, I passed out and tore up my arm and face. I'd gone into atrial fib. The idiot doctor apologized for ignoring my complaints on light headedness, etc.

Years later, I got blood clots from the a-fib and had a mild stroke (I say mild because I got back full use of my right side after months and months)

There are less serious causes, too. Mitral valve prolapse can cause palpitations. Again--if it's severe any doc with a stethoscope can hear the click--but mine was only found on Echo. (MVP is very common in people with fibromyalgia)

Edited to add: Issues that happen ONLY when you turn your neck this way or that can be an issue within the vessels/arteries themselves. This won't show up on a head CT or brain MRI. There is very specific testing needed.

 

[jb63]

Actually, a positive Babinski is an upper motor neuron sign. It is usually present in ALS, but there are other causes.

 

[notme]

My doc found a positive Babinski in both my feet--but as said--it doesn't mean ALS. Yours was negative--suggesting no UMN issue