Van features that you have found helpful?

[diagnosed2016]

We are looking for an accessible van. What specific features in a van should we be looking for to make things easier, or what have you found helpful? Passenger seat that we can transfer into? Manual or power ramps? Is side or rear entry better? We also need to have a row of seats for our kids.

 

[Diane H]

Choosing a Van

Minivan or full-size Van?
Minivans:
More appealing to those who don't want to drive a "truck".
Will fit in all garages and parking ramps.
Are lower to the ground making it possible to use a ramp for the wheelchair rather than a mechanical lift.
Less interior space and less headroom makes it more difficult to use with a power chair, especially for a tall person. A power chair may not have the turning radius needed to get it into this size van. Most newer power chairs pivot closer to their center, however, and should work.
Must have floor lowered to accommodate a wheelchair --- Large expense. Lowered floors can bottom out when driving on rough roads or into driveways.
Full sized vans:
More space for the wheelchair and other gear.
May not fit in some garages or parking ramps. Raised roof version will not fit.
Must have floor lowered and/or roof raised to accommodate the wheelchair and lift.
Consider the size of engine cowling between front seats. Can make it very difficult to move back to the passenger area if wheelchair passenger needs help.
Other options:
Dodge Sprinter: Available from the manufacturer in two roof heights, 64 or 72 inches of headroom, no roof raising/floor lowering conversion expense, just add a lift. High door height for even the tallest wheelchair user. Three lengths available. Ideal for traveling. Excellent visibility for the wheelchair passenger. Side or rear entry.
Ford Transit Connect. A small size utility van that is becoming very popular for wheelchair use. Rear entry only. Fold down ramp rather than lift. Two lengths available. Shorter length has seating for driver and one or two passengers. Longer length allows more passenger seating but puts the wheelchair in the 3rd row, and space may not be long enough for a power chair.
Lower the floor or raise the roof?
Sitting in a wheelchair puts the person sitting too high to see anything out the window beyond the edge of the road. Raising the roof doesn't add height to the windows. Lowering the floor is somewhat better but the wheelchair passengers view is still quite limited.
In order for a caregiver to stand up in the van, a real help but not essential, both floor lowering and roof-raising must be done.
A lowered floor or raised roof is generally not available as factory options and must be done by a van conversion shop.
Side or rear wheelchair entry?
Rear entry
Allows the wheelchair user to get in without maneuvering to turn the chair.
Rear entry limits the seating available for other passengers.
Rear entry eliminates the problem of being blocked from using the lift by other parked cars but requires loading and unloading in the traffic lane of a parking lot.
Side entry
Requires turning the chair to face the front. Riding sideways is unsafe as well as nauseating.
Requires about 8 feet of space, and another car parking too close can require moving the van to get back in. That is a mere nuisance if you are a wheelchair passenger, but if you are still driving yourself it leaves you stranded.
Folding or slide out lift?
Folding
Takes up some space in the passenger area and partially covers the window.
May prevent front passenger seat from being able to move back (reducing leg room) or reclining.
Can be operated manually if the controller fails.
Slide Out
Doesn't take up passenger space or block the window but does take 1.5 inches away from the headroom, a small but critical amount.
Harder to deploy manually if something happens to the controller.
May require modifying exhaust system, gas tank.
Enclosed but somewhat more exposed to water, snow, salt.
Automatic Lift?
Manual is least expensive, requires a caregiver to operate.
Semiautomatic raises/lowers the lift with a switch located on the lift, requires a caregiver to open the door.
Fully Automatic opens the door, raises/lowers the lift, and closes the door with switches located on the lift. Can be used independently if hand/arm strength allows.
Remote control can be used instead of switches. Requires full attention and caution to be used safely.

 

[diagnosed2016]

Thank you Diane! That is all very helpful!

 

[KimT]

I have a new Toyota Sienna with a VMI conversion. I tried out several vans before I made a decision. I wanted something extremely reliable and easy to drive for friends who will be doing the driving. I saved a few thousand dollars by buying the van locally and sending it out for conversion. It has a power ramp, side entry. It fits anywhere a regular Toyota Sienna would fit. It has only been driven about 1,500 miles, mostly to Atlanta and back for a hurricane evacuation. I bought it before my wheelchair arrived but tested out the same model with a Braun conversion and the Braun conversion didn't have as much room as the VMI conversion.

There are so many things to consider. I opted to get the limited version because it came with a full navigation and safety system which was something I thought my friends, mostly women, would want and need. I live in a condo and it fits in one of the regular parking spots on my floor (each floor has its own parking area) so I can drive my chair right up and into the van from my unit. It has good visibility and lots of safety features.

I've not had the lock in installed so it only has tie downs. This will change when I need the chair more. Right now I can still drive it. I decided to have the middle row removed and keep the passenger seat so the van only sits four plus the chair. The interior is leather with no carpeting so it's very easy to keep clean. The ramp works from inside or by remote. When I went to the Mobility Works Dealership I noticed that the used ones were selling at a very high price, especially the ones with low mileage. I explored some used for sale by owner but, in the end, I decided a dealer's warranty and roadside service made me feel more secure. I don't have a CALS to do repairs or calling around.

If you already have the chair, I would try it with any van you are considering. I tested them out with a larger chair from one of my PALS friends so I knew mine would fit.

Some prefer rear entry but I needed side entry.

 

[Larrytbm]

While the Sprinter seems to be a common choice, there is also the Ford Transit, big brother to the Transit Connect. The full size Transit has 3 roof heights, more engine choices and higher weight ratings for both carried weight and towing weight than the Sprinter.

I will add this, we don't have a van at this time, I plan on waiting til it is absolutely needed and probably get a used mini van. But I use a 1 ton diesel pickup to pull a fifth wheel trailer. So, I had a Braun transfer seat installed in place of the passenger seat. Since the seat rotates and raises/owers, there is no need for room to maneuver a heavy, bulky occupied pwc inside the vehicle. Even with this tall truck, the seat lowers to wheel chair height for ez transfer. My truck still clears a standard 7 ft high garage door opening while any of the mid and high roof vans will not. If this were used in a van, the second row seats could remain for the children and the pwc could be loaded with valet mode into the rear of the van. Just another option.

 

[swalker]

You have received some good advice. Here are some of my thoughts.

1. Pay close attention to how much weight you can put into the vehicle before you hit the Gross Vehicle Weight Restriction (GVWR). With our full-size van (a Chevy Express 1500 conversion van), we can carry my wheelchair, my wife, me, and a small amount of luggage to stay within the GVWR. You will likely find that adding a couple of other passengers (kids) will take you over the GVWR with a minivan. While you might have room for everyone, you will likely not have the carrying capacity (as measured by weight). You don't want to do that, as it could be unsafe. Most dealers will not have ready access to how much the van actually weighs. You can find out by taking it to truck scales (available for a modest fee at most truck stops). The GVWR is readily available, typically on a placard on the driver's door sill.

2. As we progress, we need to take more stuff with us when we travel. It is amazing just how much stuff we might need to take. When my wife and I go camping, we wind up taking two vehicles! So, the vehicle's volume is important.

3. If you get a vehicle with a lowered floor, be careful to make sure your kids can comfortably sit in the back seat. Some conversions are configured so the rear seat passengers have to let their feet dangle. Some have a flip down tray that acts as a foot rest for the rear seat passengers.

4. For reliability and durability, I prefer a conversion that makes the fewest changes to a vehicle. For minivans (and some full-sized vans), the floor is lowered. Doing so fundamentally alters the car. My research revealed that poorer quality steel is sometimes used and that these vehicles can be prone to rust. For this reason, I prefer a full size van that does not require more than adding a wheelchair lift and locking mechanism. Our full-size fan is a conversion van that has a raised roof. I am not worried about the reliability or durability of that.

5. Tall vehicles do not fit in garages. Ask us how we know. If you persist in trying to fit a conversion van with a raised roof into a garage (as my wife once did), be prepared for a several thousand dollar repair. Unfortunately, it took almost 2 months for insurance to be sorted out and the repair to be made. It is a good thing we live where there is great, wheelchair accessible public transportation.

6. Being without the van sucks. After losing the use of the van for 2 months, we decided to add rental vehicle coverage to our insurance when there is an accident. Normally, that only gets you a small car. We worked with the insurance company (USAA) to categorize our van appropriately so that we can (allegedly) have them pay the cost of a wheelchair rental van if there is a claim against our van.

7. Finally, the most important point. Do not buy a van until you have test fit YOUR wheelchair in the van. If you can't do that, borrow a wheelchair identical to the one you plan to get. Not all wheelchairs fit in all vans.

Good luck shopping for the van. I have been there and know the dilemma you face. They are expensive and you want to get it right the first time! Feel free to ask specific questions here. The folks will be glad to chime in with their opinions.

Steve

 

[diagnosed2016]

Thanks Steve. Here's a specific question- how the heck do I test the wheelchair in the van if I can't get the wheelchair to where the van is without a van?
The one I am looking at purchasing is from a family referred by the local ALS association. It's used obviously, and older but I figured it would probably work well for us since it was previously used by someone in the same situation. We also don't have "our" chair yet, we have a loaner Permobil 300 and are awaiting ours which is just the newer model.

For the back seats, our kids are still in car seats so I'm not worried about lowered floor for them.

I'm not comfortable driving a giant vehicle so mini van appeals to me more than sprinter or full size. I won't be using this as our main vehicle for everyday when I'm out with the kids so I also don't want to spend a fortune for a newer van that won't be used as much.

 

[swalker]

We also bought an older vehicle (2004). We bought it in early 2015 with 82,000 miles on it. It was well used with quite a few cosmetic issues as well as some deferred maintenance. We put about $1,000 into it to resolve the deferred maintenance items and another $1,000 to get the EZLock base plate for the wheelchair, have the EZLock base in the van repositioned for my wheelchair, and to have the wheelchair lift serviced. We have put 68,000 trouble free miles on it since then.

I was still somewhat mobile when we bought the van. I purchased some 8 foot long aluminum, folding (suitcase) wheelchair ramps. This allowed me to get the wheelchair into the back of our SUV (2006 Lexus LX470). It just barely fit and it was challenging to stand beside the wheelchair and drive it up the ramps. I had to fully recline the wheelchair to get it to go (and fold up the 2nd row seats and remove the 3rd row seats). It was even more exciting getting the wheelchair out of the SUV. It has only been in the SUV twice. Once to see if it would fit and once to drive to where we bought the van.

I had to remove the anti tip wheels from the wheelchair to get it to make the transition from level ground onto the ramps. Permobil installs those as standard equipment on the C500 wheelchairs with the high speed motor option. I don't know if the are installed on C300/F3 wheelchairs. Removing them really increased the places I can take the C500. They are in a closet somewhere.

Going the ramp route was a lot of effort and expense. I don't necessarily recommend following my lead on that (I am kind of adventurous by nature).

Perhaps you could ask the folks selling the van to drive to where the wheelchair is. If you have wheelchair accessible public transportation available, you could use that. Many public transportation departments have an ADA van. In our town, I have to call 24 hours in advance for that service. It is free, and they are very punctual. They have responded with as little as 1 hour's notice, though we don't count on that happening.

Perhaps you could rent a wheelchair van (or uHaul, or something) to transport the wheelchair to the van. You might be able to find someone with a pickup and ramps for loading an ATV, snowmobile, or some other kind of equipment. I have found that when folks find out I use a wheelchair, they just about fall over themselves trying to be helpful (which I truly appreciate).

The C300 is pretty close to the F3. I have ridden in both. I am not sure if there are meaningful differences in how they would fit into a van, but they are close enough that it might not be a problem. Since I am adventurous, I might gamble that if a C300 fit an F3 would fit. One caveat is that the loaner is probably not adjusted completely. The F3 will be (or, at least should be) sized and adjusted just right for your needs. This could subtly change how it fits into the van.

I am glad to hear that the kids won't need to worry about their feet dangling for a few years.

My first vehicle was a full size pickup. I got used to driving it in my youth, so getting a full size van (which is about as big) was no concern for me. However, I had spent most of my adult life ridiculing silly-looking conversion vans with raised, fiberglass roofs. And...now I have one.

Steve

 

[KarenNWendyn]

I have a similar question regarding Steve’s comment to wait on getting the van until you have the wheelchair to make sure your particular pwc fits in the van. What if you can’t borrow a pwc of the same model? If one were to get a used van that already had the modifications for a pwc, what are the odds that the pwc wouldn’t fit?

I have neither van nor pwc at this point, but I know the need isn’t far off. Does one ever get the van first and then have a few tweaks done to it to get the pwc to fit properly?
Thanks Steve and others for your helpful input.

 

[Nikki J]

My sister had to return a van because her wheelchair made her too tall and she was a tiny woman and considerably smaller than the prior user Fortunately it all worked out ok. No tweaks would have been possible

Another thought is that the time may come when the PALS is only comfortable with the wheelchair somewhat reclined. You need space to allow this.

 

[swalker]

What if you can’t borrow a pwc of the same model? If one were to get a used van that already had the modifications for a pwc, what are the odds that the pwc wouldn’t fit?.

Karen, I encourage getting a wheelchair early. Advantages include:

1. You can more easily adjust the wheelchair to fit you perfectly. While my first wheelchair was amazingly comfortable when I got it, I spent quite a few hours fine tuning the fit to be perfect. Had I waited until I lost mobility I would have needed to rely on others to make those adjustments as I sat in the wheelchair. That is not very practical.
2. A new wheelchair may have some issues and may need to spend some time in the shop. Getting past this period while you still have some mobility is much easier than when you are dependent on a wheelchair.
3. Getting a wheelchair early allows you to leisurely shop for a wheelchair van that will fit your wheelchair.

So, in answer to your first question, I recommend getting the wheelchair before you need to get the van. That way, you will have your wheelchair to test fit in the van.

If you don't get the wheelchair before the van, you may be able to borrow or rent one. I know that my local NuMotion would allow me to borrow one of their demo wheelchairs. I would have the van seller meet me at NuMotion and test the fit with one or more of NuMotion's wheelchairs.

As for your second question, it all depends.

If you are talking about a minivan, it is quite likely that a given wheelchair will not fit into a given minivan. I have not tried to put my wheelchair into a minivan, but based on my research their is only one conversion that could potentially fit my main wheelchair and me. For a smaller person with a smaller wheelchair, there are certainly more options.

For a full-sized van (such as a chevrolet express conversion van with a raised roof), it is very likely that most group 3 and 4 wheelchairs will fit (my C500s vS is a group 4 wheelchair, apparently).

For Sprinter, Transit, and ProMaster vans, it is likely that most wheelchairs and their occupants will fit.

For ATC Silverado/Sierra conversions (pickup trucks), it is a very tight fit. I have not yet figured how to do this. They have a template online that you can use but I have heard of stories where that did not work out so well (wheelchair did not fit when the template said it would). About the only sure way I know of is to drive to Fort Wayne, IN and test my wheelchair in one of their pickups (or find one locally).

Here are two other points to consider:

1. Not all vans have doors tall enough to accommodate the wheelchair and rider. Mine does not. I have to recline the wheelchair to load and unload. I have a memory setting configured in the wheelchair so that I don't have to guess about how far to recline the wheelchair. It is doable, but is a hassle. I look forward to having a wheelchair vehicle someday where this is not necessary.

2. Securing the wheelchair and the rider is important. I can still transfer into a normal seat, so only need to secure the wheelchair. Three options I know of are EZ Lock, QLock, and tiedowns. I would not want tiedowns at all. I have an EZ Lock and it has been fine. I presume a QLock would also be fine, but I don't have any experience them.

If you are going to ride in the wheelchair you will need to have an appropriate seat belt setup. A mobility shop should be able to configure this for you. My van came with a removable seat belt for the wheelchair occupant.

Steve

 

[Jrzygrl]

My hubby has a Permobil F3. The chair sits high, as it has the elevate function. My huband is also tall (6'2"). When we were looking at vans, a CALs who's PAL had passed drove her van to our house for us to try. DH barely fit and would not have been comfortable traveling in that vehicle. We contacted Mobility Works, and they were great! The sales manager brought several different makes and models of minivans to our house to try. DH only fit comfortably in one - a Dodge Grand Caravan with a Braun XT. We rented one for a weekend to give it a try. It took a little bit before they found a used model equipped the way we wanted within our price range. DH did have his PWC before we started test driving. It's daunting, but worth the effort to be able to get around. Good luck!

 

[KimT]

I had the same good experience with Mobility Works. The sales manager drove several vans over and I used a bigger-than-mine-would-be wheelchair to test models.

I would first ask the sellers if they can drive the van to you.

Karen, get your wheelchair order in the works. I pushed hard against the supplier and Permobil and got the elevator function paid by Permobil. The supplier was pushing another brand because their markup was higher so I called Permobil directly and they sent a rep with a couple of chairs and about 5 different seat cushions. She was with me all afternoon. It did take about 4 months after the initial visit to get the chair so start now. Mine has been sitting in my master closet for over six months. I've driven it around the condo and outside once or twice. I still need to get the lock down part of the van done to fit my chair. Mobility works will come over and get the van for that part.

 

[KarenNWendyn]

Steve, I have officially dubbed you “The power wheelchair guru”. Thanks for all your input.

 

[diagnosed2016]

So as an update, and for those who are looking for a van, we did go to check out the mini van I was eyeing and there is no way it was going to work. It had a transfer passenger seat but the headroom was so low I couldn't get him in and out of it. With the elevate function in the powerchair it is way too tall. Hubby is not that tall either. So looks like we are getting a full size van. Not what I wanted, and more than I wanted to pay, but has much more space. We found an older model that has 20,000 miles on it and has been babied so i think that's what we will end up with.