Question about wheelchair vans-

[mare]

We are starting the search for vans, and in gathering information, learned there are a few companies that do conversions. (who knew?) Seems like the main co. are Braun & VMI.

I've read discussions here that mention Braun; does anyone have the VMI conversion?
We like the Honda Odyssey, which only does VMI, and wonder how it holds up as far as the ramp & anything else.

Would appreciate any & all comments; and, any plus or minus on the Toyota Sienna.
This is the other van that works for us.

Thanks!

[BarryG]

Hi mare, sorry I can't answer your questions but I did find a good thread on the subject of wheelchair vans that you might be interested in reading if you haven't already.

http://www.alsforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1983

I hope this helps and please let me know what you find, I will be looking for a van soon and I would rather not spend a lot of money that I don't have.

Barry

[ZenArcher]

I have a VMI and reviewed it at: ALSMatters (http://www.alsmatters.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=14:transportation&id=9:vantage-mobility-northstar-van-conversion&Itemid=81).

[mare]

Thanks, Jeff. Can I ask what car/van you have?
And, do you drive it? In your chair, or in driver's seat?

Jim would like to get one fairly soon (at least order one) and use with just a basic power chair. We aren't sure if the dimensions would be the same with a more advanced chair.
Plan on discussing this with OT/PT at next visit (next Thurs.)

At this point, he can transfer easily to driver's seat, and driving is still OK. He wants the independence of being able to go places himself. (maybe I should follow him someday; check exactly where he is going? LOL)

Barry- I did see those threads, thanks. I'll keep you posted, but I think this process will take some time. It is not like going to a dealership & buying a regular car- whether new or used. And, Jim loves the hunt & will haggle the last $50! (he is embarrassing sometimes!) Plus, he doesn't even have a chair yet- we'll see!

[MtPockets]

When looking at vans or conversions remember to check the headroom inside and going through the door. I had some trouble with this as I am six feet tall.
Also you can chose to have a single point lock down in the center of your wheelchair that has a remote release, or the regular straps that fasten to all four corners of your chair. The single point release Has a part that sticks down in the middle of the bottom of your chair that may make clearance over some obstacles difficult.
Just some things to consider. Here is just one of the many models made at:
http://www.ezlock.net/

[mare]

I remember your posts regarding head room. That is a concern of ours as well, since Jim is also 6ft. For that reason, the Town & Country is ruled out for us. The Toyota & Honda had slightly more room. But, since we don't yet have the chair, I'm afraid we are putting the cart before the horse!

Just gathering all the info right now to see what our options are.

[ZenArcher]

I don't drive it although I could. I got a Permolock installed, but on the passenger side. I would have to get evaluated to drive from my chair and just didn't feel like dealing with it. I have the 2008 Dodge Caravan as I stated in my review and it has 58" of headroom and I think 55 1/2" at the entry. I'm just under 5'10" and fit with no problems in a Permobil C500 which is also reviewed.

I would appreciate it if anyone here would submit and review items that they think are useful or useless. It will allow us to pool and share that knowledge. The process is quick and simple and even if it gets messed up it can easily be fixed so please give it a go.

[mare]

I saw the review on the Dodge Caravan; didn't realize that was you.
Didn't see the Permobil review. Will have to go back & check that!

I'd rather be shopping for a pair of shoes (sigh)! LOL

[hopingforcure]

Mare,
Pam is in Mechanicsburg PA. She is as you know a sweet-heart. She want's to help other PALS with her beloved Andie's things. She is already reaching out if you could use anything, I know Andy had a very nice bed, she live's close to me, so anything I could do on my end for anyone let me know. I have a strong son and husband, anyone in the PA. Maryland, or Delaware, or somewhere close maybe we could help. Not sure if Pam has transportation on not, she will be back after this weekend. I send out my thoughts and love to Pam and family as they remember and put to rest beloved pal Andy.

[mare]

Thank you very much for that kind offer in behalf of Pam. Yes, she does seem like a very caring & compassionate person.

We are not in need of anything; fortunately, our ALS Chapter is large & we have been provided with a walker & scooter. Will be checking with them on Thursday, our next visit, about availability of a power chair.

I'm sure she will be able to find a home for all of the equipment she has, perhaps by donating it to the ALS association or MDA; or even thru Stu at the ALS Guardian Angels.

I am keeping Pam & Andy's family in my prayers also, as they face this most difficult time.
Thank you again, hopefully someone will see this offer and contact you.

[gramps]

Hello Mare,

We recently purchased the Braun/Toyota Sienna & are VERY pleased with the choice. Why Toyota? For the simple fact that I have put as many as 292,000 miles on Toyotas in the past & have never has a bad experience w them. I am certain that the Honda is just as good.

My research revealed one point to consider: Braun builds their conversions on a Sienna chassis that is "beefed up" for commercial delivery use, whereas (at least as I understand it) the Honda & Dodge/Chrysler are built on normal passenger van frame.

We are getting 20 mpg (over 4 months of normal driving) and are pleased w the comfort. This van has allowed me to make the 800+ mile (round trip) ride (I can no longer drive safely) to see my grandchildren twice this summer, with plans for 2 more trips by Thanksgiving.

Although it was expensive, it has added a great deal to my quality of life.

Only one issue has popped up. The Braun ramp folds up in a manner that interferes w the reclining of the front passenger seat. I am concerned that it will tear in the future. I called Braun, & they sent a rather cheap piece of plastic to place on the ramp to "protect" the seat. This solution is unsatisfactory, so I am going to remedy it in another manner.

Since you seem to be in a large community, see if you can examine both the VMI & the Braun.

Good luck with your search,
gramps

[MtPockets]

I have a leased Ford van and someone put the passenger seat back and when the ramp was lowered it tore the back of the seat cover.
It also must have the commercial frame because it rides really rough.
There is a new model coming on the market that has more headroom without raising the roof. It has 61" headroom inside and 56 and 1/2 inches going thru door.
It is called BraunAbility Entervan XT Handicap Van. Chrysler/Dodge I think.
You can see a picture at:
BraunAbility Wheelchair Vans: Entervan XT | BraunAbility (http://www.braunability.com/products/minivans/entervan-xt/)

[brendapals]

ok friends...here is my question-

I have an 06 Kia Sedona van-is there some way to find out if it can be converted? I have a power chair coming from the ALS Assn in a couple of weeks.

Hubby seems to think he can have a ramp installed? I need guidance!
thanks-
brenda

[brooksea]

Brenda,

I've seen Kia Sedonas converted on the internet for sale. It would just be a matter of taking the van to a converter or have them come out so they can measure your chair, etc... The ones I saw had a rear entrance ramp.

[mare]

From what I understand, Braun & VMI are the 2 top conversion companies (full conversions, with lowerd floors) They now only convert Dodge, Chrysler, Toyota (only Braun) & Honda (only VMI). At least, new models. I don't know if they retro fit.

There are a few other smaller companies that do this type of conversion, but I have no info on them, as far as reliability & safety.

You can have just a ramp or lift fitted for a van. but this only works if you can transfer safely from your chair to the passenger seat. Once you are fully w/c dependent, and need to stay in the chair, the conversion is one where the floor is lowered 10" (some slightly more) & a ramp/lift is installed. Obviously, you want a reliable company doing this! And, I do not know if this would be possible on your model.

Since you have the van, it would be less expensive to install ramp/lift. But, this would only work short term, depending on your progression.
If possible, if you have any w/c van dealers in your area, it is worth a trip to see how these things work, just to understand what is involved. Believe me, it is an education! Hope this helps!

[MtPockets]

Whatever you decide to do, I would not recommend a wheelchair lift on the rear of the vehicle. That is what I got first. It worked as long as I could transfer to the seat and my wife would drive the WC onto the lift rack on the back of the car, Honda Pilot by the way.
Biggest problem, I was only able to transfer for about one year and then that option no longer was workable. So now I have a vehicle I cannot use and have had to lease a fully handicapped van to ride inside with my power chair.
I should have planned further ahead and gotten the fully functional van to start with. Please take this opportunity to learn from my mistakes.

[brooksea]

Great info Capt AL! I will keep that in mind for my husband!

[GlenBrittle]

This is the van that I will be driving.

2002 Chev Astro Van, AWD, wheelchair equipped, Universal Motion InFlor Lift, driver and passenger seat move forward/backward, up/down and swivel for easy transfers, CaroSpeed hand controls, spinner knob, raised door and roof, auto start and alarm system, safety checked, excellent condition, professionally maintained, black, grey leather, tinted windows

The infloor lift is stored in it own compartment below the floor of the van. I will receive it Tuesday or Wednesday next week.

Glen

[brendapals]

wow, what an education! I hope to travel to a dealer about 50 mi. from here- Superior Vans and Mobility. I'll have to see what they can do with my van! I should have my power w/c next week- but don't need it for traveling...yet.

Thanks, MT, I won't go for the rear entry!

take care all,
brenda

[joelc]

Brenda, I don't think he was saying not to get a rear entry van, just don't get one with a power lift. The same is true for a side entry.

As far as I am concerned a rear entry is the only way to go. But with a ramp. You can park anywhere and still get out.

[mare]

I understand what you are saying about ease of entry & exit with rear-entry van.

However, where we are, this is less of a problem. Handicap parking is readily available, and that includes spaces that are "van accessible"- i.e. added space. I think each person's locale should be taken into account on this issue.

That is why we prefer the side-entry ramp van. This way the w/c can "ride shotgun" when the passenger seat is removed. In spite of navigation, I'm not good with directions. This way, Jim can keep me company & tell me where to go.

No comments from the peanut-gallery!LOL

[GlenBrittle]

crap ... Oh Mare, I bit my tongue too hard ... :twisted:

With a rear entry , I did not find I could transfer to the drivers seat at all .

I have a side entry . My parking spot at work , the one with the smurf blue emblem , is open on both sides. Perfect.

[mare]

This is also Jim's point for now. He wants to get the van while he can still drive, but needs the w/c to get around. Side-entry allows him to ride his chair up, and transfer to the driver's seat, and back again to his w/c to leave the vehicle.

When the time comes that he can no longer drive, we will remove the passenger seat & he can pull his w/c into that position & lock/tie-down there. I will then be the driver; and as I said before- oh, never mind!

There are many options available on these vans; try to take into consideration where you are now, but plan for the future as well.

Glen, sorry about your tongue- I'm surprised you were able to bite it!

[brendapals]

wow- so many things to consider! Hope my hubby is ready!!!!

AND NOW LOOK AT THIS!!!!!!!!!! I think I just graduated my member status from senior member to what ever is next! YIPPEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got the call today, actually hubby did, and they are delivering a LOANER power w/c next Tues. Don't worry, I'll let ya'll know as soon as I get it!

Hugs to all
-brenda

[mare]

Congratulations on being a very helpful member! You know that really means that you
"talk" alot!LOL

Yes, the w/c van education is something else!
We finally decided on ours; should be delivered next week- YEAH!

And, Jim finally got his loaner chair today (after 3 unsuccessful tries)- Invacare TDX !
He is very happy with it; says it is very comfortable. Portable ramp came today, too.

Life is strange- who would think we would be happy to be getting a power w/c and accessible van? Certainly this time last year it would have been unthinkable!

As Hoping says..."what was once unacceptable, becomes acceptable." BIG SIGH

Good luck on your fact finding mission!

[BarryG]

Hooray for Brenda, our newest Very Helpful Member! And congratulations on your new chair.

So mare, what kind of van did you decide on? And I will congratulate you too on your new powerchair although I agree, it is something that we really shouldn't be happy about having to have. Oh well, such is life.

[mare]

We went with the Honda Odessy. It was the right fit for us.
Good thing was that I have an SUV, only 2yrs. old in excellent condition (garage kept) & low mileage- you know, only driven by a little old lady to church & back. (Glen, bite that tongue!)

So, the trade-in was a wash on the van & we are actually only paying for the conversion.
See how I can turn things around with my rose-colored glasses!

When we get it, maybe I'll post a picture. I have to post pictures of Lucy & all the DME. She loves all of Jim's "toys"- his stair chair is a "train" for her to ride, the scooter she loves, and his walker (which he hates & uses very little) is now being used by her as she is starting to walk. We have a little stuffed bear hanging from one side & Elmo hanging from the other!

And boy did she get excited when the chair came today- already had a ride on Grandpop's lap! Just toys for the grandkids!!!

[MtPockets]

For those that are taller like me this may be an option:
Is the Entervan XT Right for Everyone? | AbilityVoice (http://www.braunability.com/abilityvoice/2009/07/is-the-entervan-xt-right-for-everyone/)

[BarryG]

So, the trade-in was a wash on the van & we are actually only paying for the conversion.

mare, if you don't mind my asking, how much does the conversion cost? And how long does it take?

[mare]

Braun & VMI are $22,000 - 23,000. This is thru a dealer (not a regular car dealer, but a van conversion dealer- i.e.- a new van is "purchased" by the conversion company, and then they do the conversion. The dealer then gets the vans for their inventory, to be available for the customer). There are some exclusives- Toyota conversions are only done by Braun & Honda conversions are only done by VMI.
Dodge & Chrystler are done by either.

Keep in mind, this is for new vans (and by new, they include 2008 that have not been previously owned) We did not go the used van route; we are not mechanically inclined. Don't know a good engine from a bad! (Glen- put a sock in it!)

Jim can still drive; he can take this for independence. Then, we can transition when we need. In the mean time, since he is trading in my car, I get to drive his car when he uses the van!

[mare]

Just to update-

We did get the Honda Odyssey van with the fold up ramp (as opposed to the in floor ramp). It is working out great; the headroom is fine for my husband who is 6'. (can view on my album-Renovations)

Gramps- yes, the fold up ramp does restrict the use of reclining in the passenger position. This is something I just realize I give up (since I am in the passenger side for now). For those who think this is an issue, maybe look into the ramp that folds into the floor. (at this point, I forget if it is the Summit or the Northstar conversion, on the VMI)
Just look into the pros & cons for each conversion, as it applies to your location/area.
(taking weather into consideration)

What we do- since I am tall & want the passenger seat as far back as possible- before we activate the ramp, I "pop" the backrest forward, and the ramp does not rub against the back of the seat. Then, after my husband enters the van, we close the door and then I return the back rest to a position that just barely touches the ramp.

We realize we are so lucky to have this. and the freedom & mobility it allows us. And, we are glad we made this purchase sooner, rather than later!

Thanks to all for your comments, advise & tips. I hope this will help others when they begin their search!

[MtPockets]

My Braun Van is in the process of being converted. I wish I had known about the passenger seat lean back issue, I would have went for the under the floor lift. I am sure it will do fine. We will just have to adjust. Anything has got to be better than the Ford F-250 high top van we have been using. It rides very rough and of course is top heavy.

[mare]

Capt. Al-
I'm sure it will be fine. That's great that you are getting a van that is better suited for you. When are you due to get it?

[MtPockets]

It is being converted now. So as soon as they finish???? Hopefully soon. I am blessed.