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View Full Version : Anything out of the ordinary?


Steve100
02-05-2008, 03:22 PM
Hi

I've included some of the medical reports on my Mother - can anyone tell me if theres anything here that suggests anything OTHER than MND, or if it all fits the Diagnosis? Aplogies for the lengthy post, but there'll be no more like this :)

Steve

June 12 – Gp - On examination I could find no real demonstrable weakness in any of her muscle groups. Her reflexes were extremely brisk and her sensations were normal. Blood tests show ESR of 30 and a slightly raised isolated bilirubin of 32 which is probably not significant.

27th July – Consultant Physician

Symptoms include sensation of muscles tightening up, especially in her neck, feeling tired all the time, poor appetite, weak knees, slurred speech and dysphagia. She is hypothyroid and on replacement therapy for vitamin D deficiency. Systemic enquiry was unremarkable. Speech was slow, Mild dysarthia. Appeared to be fasciculation in her tongue and pwer was reduced in all four limbs,grade 3 mostly. There was small muscle wasting In her hands and deep tendon reflexes were bilaterally brisk. Plantors were extensor bilaterally. There was no clonus or fasciculations. Light touch and pin prick were present throughout , there was some subjective loss of pin prick sensation. There was no sensory level. Co ordination was normal

21st September 2007 – Neuro.

Some pin and needles in her right leg. Normal eye movements and fundoscopy She had rather brisk facial reflexes, She was slightly weak in neck flexion and globally weak in both upper and lower limbs, There was a hint of increased tone although it was not very dramatic in both the upper and lower limbs.

Her reflexes were brisk in the upper limbs, present at the knees and absent at the ankles. Bilateral plantar extensor responses.

In summary she seems to have predominantly motor signs which are a combination of upper and lower motorneuron in nature.

She has had several investigations, including a nerve conduction test, which has shown essentially, normal motor conduction with sensory action potentials of –in the right finger three – of 11.6 and in the right ulnar of 0.5 with an absent right seural.

Emg has shown fibrillation potentials in right tibialis anterior, right quadriceps, right deltoid and right first dorsal interosseous

There were polyphasic units in right tibialis anterior and right quadriceps.

I agree that motor neurone disease does enter the differential diagnosis although the only signs of definite wasting that I saw was in the first dorsal interosseous and one could argue - particularly given the low sensory action potential in the ulnar nerve - that these are the effects of pressure – because she is mainly sitting down now. One could suggest that it is a predominantly upper motorneuron problem that she has, with the only lower motorneuron feature of an unequivocal nature is the wasting in her hands which, as mentioned above, might be due to the effects of pressure on the ulnar nerve,
03/10/07 - Neuro
The lady has had an MRI brain scan which shows several tiny high areas of signal abnormality in the frontal parietal lobes bilaterally but no evidence of mass effect or haemorrhage.

The very small areas of increased signal are non specific. No other significant abnormality is demonstrated.

05/10/07 – Neuro

Diagnosed with MND – MRI of brain and spine which were normal and EMG ‘which was supportive of the condition’. Normal full blood count and normal protein electrophoresis. Her thyroid function and calcium are normal.

Some abnormalities of the liver function test – in terms of a raised ast and raised alkaline phosphatase level - Ck level of 202.

Thyroid function – TSH +6.33
Free T4 -11.7

MR Cervical spine – Slight movement artefact on the sagittal imaging. The spinal cord and central canal appear unremarkable. There is no evidence of cervical myelopathy. Craniocervical junction relationships also normal.

Steve100
02-07-2008, 04:27 AM
Anybody? :(

ccox
02-07-2008, 09:53 AM
Goodness, your report is over my head--too much "doctor speak". My mother and her husband never shared any of the outcomes of her testing other than it's final outcome. Honestly, I don't think their docs shared specific numbers with them. Could you post with simple symtoms (having trouble swallowing, walking, buttoning button, breathing, coughing, etc.)?

I'm sorry all the tests seems sort of inconclusive. I would guess that the neuros would send her to an ALS specialist if they believed her information lead them them in that direction.
Do the folks in the UK differentiate between kinds of MNDs? Do they call it ALS, or is it just considered an MND and they treat it the same as other MNDs (like Muscular Dystrophy?)? Maybe it would be worth talking to the neuro about. See if your Mom can get another appointment or simply a phone consultation and ask straight out---does she have ALS?

I'm sorry you got left hanging with no answers here. Sometimes that happens, no offense to you.:)

Steve100
02-07-2008, 11:07 AM
Hi - Thanks for the reply. In all honesty, she's been diagnosed with Als and is wheelchair bound, and having difficulty swallowing and speaking etc. I just wanted to post these 'to be absolutely sure'. I have more faith in the people here than the doctors we've seen. Her GP asked me last friday what ALS was (this was despite promising to look into it four months ago:?.

olly
02-07-2008, 11:14 AM
im sorry to hear about your mother.im in westyorkshire i have family in aberysweth.
i have pls umn symptoms but i do have some slight lmn involvment, im waiting to go to mnd clinic as my neuro wont tell me for definate and is not experienced enough ,im also having emg. i had to get referal from my doc to clinic,i would recomend you see your mums doc for a referal to a mnd neuro for a definate dx.
how long has she been ill?. with vauge lmn signs they like to watch progression before a dx of als or pls. i too have definate muscle weakness and fassics,but no atrophy thats the only lmn symptom i dont have.
let us know how you get on if you ask to see mnd neuro/clinic
best wishes to you/mum and family
caroline

Steve100
02-07-2008, 01:16 PM
Hi Caroline, sorry to hear about your illness, I hope everything works out as best as it can. Can you tell me where the MND clinic you will be using is? I asked the GP about an MND specialist, but she only knew of ones in London etc. I don't know if this is because Wales is a bit small to maintain a specialised clinic, or whether she is unaware. I asked her about Lithium too, but she said that she couln't prescribe it in the dosage required because it hasn't been licensed for MND. Will you be pursuing lithium?

oops double post..see below :D

Steve100
02-07-2008, 01:21 PM
Hi Caroline, sorry to hear about your illness, I hope everything works out as best as it can. Thanks for the kind wishes. :) Can you tell me where the MND clinic you will be using is? I asked the GP about an MND specialist, but she only knew of ones in London etc. I don't know if this is because Wales is a bit small to maintain a specialised clinic, or whether she is unaware. I asked her about Lithium too, but she said that she couln't prescribe it in the dosage required because it hasn't been licensed for MND. Will you be pursuing lithium?

My mothers symptoms came on in December 2006, but only a slight difficulty walking, which we thought was her arthritis. She could no longer climb the stairs in Feb 07, and began to fall during the summer. She is now in a bad way, just over a year later. It does seem to have moved particularly fast.

Do take care of yourself and best of luck to you and yours. Keep in touch :)

Steve

olly
02-07-2008, 02:03 PM
:-Dthe mnd association will be able to recomend a mnd neuro for you,you may have to ask doc to refer you but should not take long.
mnd assoc number for cardiff and vale of glamorgan is 08453 751834 or email
angela.lea@mndassociation.org
hope this helps,all the best
caroline

Steve100
02-07-2008, 03:04 PM
Hi Caroline, thanks for the info. We do have a contact (not Angela) with the MNDA but she was the one who told us there is no specialist clinics in Wales.:-?

Thanks for finding out for me though, it may well be worth doublechecking :)

Best Wishes

Steve

olly
02-07-2008, 03:25 PM
ive just been on web and there is a mnd care centre at cardiff university hospital of wales the co ordinators e mail is sandra.henry@cardiffandvale.wales.nhs.uk
the director/neuro is proff mark wiles. hope that helps more

Steve100
02-07-2008, 03:33 PM
Hi..It helps a lot, thank you very much indeed :).

I have tried googling for a clinic but I couldn't have been specific enough, so drew a blank.

Cheers, you're a star. :)

Steve

olly
02-07-2008, 03:41 PM
your very welcome thats what this forum is here to do,so we can help each other.
im going to a clinic in leeds,hopefully me and your mum can finally get the proper help.
please let me know how you get on,take care
caroline:-D

Steve100
02-07-2008, 03:50 PM
Wish you all the best of luck in Leeds. Keep me informed :)

I'll let you know if we can get lithium on prescription (they refused at first), can you let me know if you have better luck?

Thanks again, and take Care

Steve

Steve100
02-11-2008, 06:11 AM
Any opinions on this section in particular? Is it conclusive? Could it be anything else with these results? Thanks



She has had several investigations, including a nerve conduction test, which has shown essentially, normal motor conduction with sensory action potentials of –in the right finger three – of 11.6 and in the right ulnar of 0.5 with an absent right seural.

Emg has shown fibrillation potentials in right tibialis anterior, right quadriceps, right deltoid and right first dorsal interosseous

There were polyphasic units in right tibialis anterior and right quadriceps.

olly
02-11-2008, 10:52 AM
i do not know alot about emg just that it is used to confirm als. nerve conduction test is usually normal but emg shows fassic potentials. all emg results seem to be right side are her symptoms all on right side? have you been able to see about the mnd care clinic?
caroline:)

Steve100
02-13-2008, 06:17 AM
Hi Caroline :)

My Mothers symptoms are on right and left, she can't hold her weight on her legs and her arms are extremely bad too.

She is reluctant to see anyone else at the moment and panics a little when anyone brings it up.

How are you? Hope you're well :)

Steve

olly
02-13-2008, 11:42 AM
:-D im not too good at the moment, still waiting for appointment for clinic. its probably best to leave it a bit, till at least she feels ready but it will benefit her to go as soon as shes able to cope.
best wishes to you and your mum
caroline

Steve100
02-13-2008, 12:08 PM
Sorry to hear you're not doing so well. Hope you feel better soon . Let me know how it goes.

All the best to you and yours :)

Steve

olly
02-13-2008, 05:54 PM
sorry about short reply earlier,im not doing too well at the moment and got alot on my mind. i thought about what you said about your mum,she has just got a terminal dx and will panic and may be in denial but letting her know that you are there to talk to when shes ready is the best thing you can do for now.im not in denial anymore but my son and family are. i dont tell them much about whats going on, when i do they just clam up and pretend everythings ok so i keep it all to myself .how old is your mum?.i became ill at 32,i had a job i loved,full active life always fit and healthy. first few yrs i went down hill fast then stabilized a bit a few yrs then 14 mths ago i started to deteriorate again,im now 40 limited mobility,speach and especially swallowing/respitory is getting worse.
i think the best support to give is emotional over practical, doing practical things does help but emotional support is the most important. have you told her about forum?
reading about people going through the same as she is could help, if shes not ready just mention little points about people here and what they say to get her interested.
this site is a lifeline to all who suffer mnd and gives us a place to voice/vent /pour out our concerns,your mum may find its easier to talk to people on here. im here to talk to when shes ready.
best wishes to you and family
caroline:)

Steve100
02-14-2008, 05:46 AM
Hi Caroline

No need to apologise, you're one of the only ones trying to help, so anything is appreciated :)

I am sorry to hear of your history with this disease, and that you're going through a difficult patch. Its so cruel. I hope it settles down soon. My Mother is 59, and has had a rapid decline in just a year (dx in sept 07) so she hasn't really had time to come to terms with it, which of course is understandable. She doesn't like to be reminded at all, and just wants it to be over I think. I think she accepted it before anyone else. What puzzles me is that she has very little atrophy (except in her hands), her muscles just look like they have become less toned and 'flabby' , which could just be through lack of use. Other than anomalies like that, and the speed, then she perhaps she would be a textbook case. I know everyone progresses differently so maybe I'm kidding myself.

Thanks for helping me out.

Keep in touch, you can always PM me if you'd like

All the best.

Steve :)

olly
02-14-2008, 10:45 AM
my muscles are the same.ive progressed slowly over 8yrs in the begining i had just umn signs/symptoms but then developed lmn involvement. my reflexes in legs were once hyper but have become less active despite still having spasms.ive also developed hypotonicity/fladdicity this is a lmn sign/symptom it means the muscle has become floppy/loss of muscle tone/loss of contraction/paralysis, this is caused by lmn lesions maybe this is what your mum has.i have limb girdle muscle weakness also.
the only lmn symptom i dont have is atrophy, only weight loss. doing research ive found that there are a number of forms of als,that is why there are people who dont fit the text book case. after yrs of tests ruling everything out and following my progress my neuro dropped bomb of it being a mnd in oct07,but wont say pls/als. ive stuck with him for 7yrs and now realise i wasted all that time on a incompitent moron.lol:oops:
but now doc refered me to mnd clinic so hopefully get emg and a definate dx.
all the best to you and family
caroline:-D

Steve100
02-14-2008, 02:05 PM
I know what you mean , My neuro and yours seem to be peas in a pod :D. I hope that your appointment goes well and you finally get some answers.

It looks like my Mother has some similar symptoms to you, hopefully you will both slow down in progression soon.:)

Best Wishes to You and Yours

Steve :)

olly
02-18-2008, 04:06 PM
:-Djust wanted to say hi and ask how your mum is doing i hope shes not too bad.
im a bit better today but had to increase baclofen,still no appointment yet for mnd clinic but its only been 3-4wks so you know what nhs is like usually about 6wks to wait.
i hope everything is ok with you and your mum
bestwishes to you all
caroline

Steve100
02-19-2008, 06:11 AM
Hi Caroline :)

Glad to hear you're feeling better, but sorry to hear about your wait. When my Mother was first diagnosed we had to wait 3 extra weeks for a scan because the doctor hadn't opened the letter he was sent:?, so make sure you harass them a little bit, keep it moving forward.

My Mother's arms and hands are a bit worse, more so even than just a week or two back, but her breathing seems ok, so thats something.

All the best to you and yours, and keep in touch

Steve


    
   
   
   
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