Moral dilemma - sexual relations

[francoise]

I don't know how to say this, but does anyone ever think about extramarital relations? I know it is terrible, but sometimes I get so frustrated and I have these thoughts and then I feel so guilty just for having them. Am I the only one - I feel like I am evil or something, but I was wondering if anyone else had issues with husband and wife relations. I love my spouse so much, but sometimes I feel like I am missing out. Is it selfish on my part to even have such thoughts?

[Sunshine]

My husband is not far along with his illness like others on this forum. But for me that issue would never come into my mind. I have been married for almost 21 years. I love him dearly and could never even considerate it. The other spouses/partners probably will be able to help you more that have been living with this illness longer. I'm sure it is horrible not being able to have a sexual relationship with your spouse, if that is the situation. But there are also emotional affairs. I would recommend seeing a counselor or someone to help deal with this awful disease and how to deal with how relationships can change because of illness. I hope you find the answers that you need. Take care. Sunshine

[Pearl]

Personally I think it would depend a lot on the type of relationship that you have with your spouse. When you married, did you really love them or was it a marriage of conveinence, or for some other reason?

I think, morally, it is imparitive that you stand by your spouse during this time, regardless of the answer to that question. If you are not close to your husband/wife, I can see where you might want outside support in order to deal with the difficulties...but that doesn't have to translate into a physical affair.

And, I think the worst thing you could do would be to add a broken heart to the broken body. Just give that some thought.

Hope this helps.

[hope]

I am sorry you are in there, this disease is horrible there is not doubt about that. It is very painful for the one who has als and the family. My husband was diagnosed one year ago today with this disease. I cried most of the day and so did my husband. We held each other tight today. I love my darling husband with all my heart and soul and I have to honestly say that I would never, never think of anyone else. I look into my loved ones eyes and I see the man that I married many years ago. The disease has not changed that. If anything I love him more and more every day. He is my best friend, the love of my life and I know this disease is awful but I would not trade this for anything in the world. I would not want to be with anyone but him. When he can no longer hold me which is soon to happen I will hold him tighter and tighter every day. True love will not let anyone else into ones heart. Everyone feels differently about things in life and everyone is not the same. We all cope in our own little way but one thing I know for sure my husband will always be my husband sick or not sick the love we have is forever and a day. I am sorry you feel the way you do but please it is okay to feel what you feel but for me I know the big muscular, kind caring man that I married is still that man.

Sandy.

[Patsy]

I can say without a doubt that an affair ,either emotional and/or physical will ultimately destroy your marriage with your spouse who has ALS. I have been there and been through it. It has also deeply traumatized my boys of 11 and 14 years old.
Patsy

[Snowbird]

I can understand your concern. However, stay true to your husband.

You can still have sex with him if he is not in too much pain. It just means that you have to do the work and 'be on top'. No problem. He will love it, and love you for it. We had great sex that way for almost 3 years, but about 5 months before my husband passed on, his whole body was in too much pain.

As for seeking affection elsewhere, sometimes it occurs because the partner with ALS may unknowingly start to shut you out of his/her life. It is their way of coping. However, talk to your partner about it. Be very open, and very honest. However, as already mentioned, do not break his heart.

It is over a year since my husband passed, and there isn't any man that I would want to be with. I only want him, and that will not happen.

My friends tell me it is the electronics age, so ............

Best of luck!

Pat

[Snowbird]

Sandy, I have to agree with your sentiments exactly.

I also loved and still love my husband more than life itself, and I would do anything to have him back, even in heavy care.

I can also understand the loneliness that a person may feel. You & I have turned that loneliness into extra love and extra caring for our loved one, and we make the most of every moment. I just hope that our strength is enough to give others the same strength.

Once again I will recomment Dr. Ruth's book, 'The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands'. It made our last 3 years wonderful and amazing.

Does anyone take their vows seriously??

"In sickness and in health, til death do us part..............".

Anyway, this is not intended to minimize anyone's feelings, but hopefully it can give others some strength.

Pat

[MtPockets]

Ok we heard from all you wonderful wives who love and cherish their husbands. I admire and respect you greatly for your comments. Your husbands are blessed beyond measure, I hope they know it.

How would I a husband with ALS react or feel if my wife had an affair or sought comfort from another man while I am dying. The bottom of my bucket of hope would suddenly open up and drain away. I have been married over 40 years, my wife is my best friend, and it would destroy any hope I had left for that to happen. I would probably just give up and die.

Do you want your husband to feel anything like this? Do you love him enough to be there for him until the end?

Sometimes caregivers reach burnout and they need a little time away to recharge their love batteries so to speak. Perhaps you can find someone to help share the load of his care. I don't know the answer for you but just a few suggestions.

God Bless,
Big AL
:oops:

[Al]

As another man's point of view I have been married 36 years and I would be devestated. As someone said earlier we are in the electronic age. Batteries still work and there are toys as they say that can relieve frustration for most anyone. My wife says just me holding her will be enough when the time comes that she can't enjoy me any more even if she has to fold my arms around her herself. AL.

[Pearl]

quote: "I love my spouse so much, but sometimes I feel like I am missing out. Is it selfish on my part to even have such thoughts?"

After rereading your post and noticing this line "I love my spouse so much..." - that should give you your answer.

If you really love your spouse, this shouldn't even be a question. Trust me, you aren't "missing out" on anything - the real adventure, the real excitement is in the real "love".

[Patsy]

everybody;
I think that Pearl is right on the money.
It was the same for my situation. My CALS wanted everything that he felt he was missing out on because of my care. His family were encouraging him constantly to leave me and live his life without ALS, that he was missing out.
They are missing out on what real Love is. The constant dissatisfaction with life never being enough is a permanent distortion of their inner peace. They are self proclaimed devoit Christians!
Thank you very much Pearl and others posters, this thread really helped me clear out some inner garbage.
Patsy

[TBear]

I don't believe that there is a flip side to this moral question Francios. The reality is that your husband will, as Al said, (that's Al the fireguy) would pull the plug out of his bucket of hope. A small indiscretion on your part will eventually build into an huge guilt (bigger if you are catholic)

I agree with the others... get some assistance with your husbands care before you burn out... and some therapy before something stupid happens that you will regret for a long time!
Maybe someone should write a book on how to sexually satisfy PALS... and CALS!

good luck

T.

[Al]

Geez now you want me to write a book? Wherever will I find the time? Actually that is covered although not in much detail in the Manual for Living With ALS. I think there are a couple of other advice sites where it is discussed. If you have a bit of imagination and aren't too shy things can be done that will be helpful to both parties. AL.

[paula B]

you said you feel evil,,,well i would say you said it all.

[catarina]

“A thought which does not result in an action is nothing much, and an action which does not proceed from a thought is nothing at all.”

It is ok to have your own thoughts! It is different to act on them, everybody here has a different situation: some of you are older, your children have grown up and left the home, you may have a great group around you to love and support you. Some of you have always had a great partnership with your significant other, communication is key! But what happens if your PALS turned to alcohol and or drugs, or shut you out, what happens when you have young kids, what happens when the PALS has so much anger over his situation that it becomes abuse? What about when he refuses to have outside help? What happens when he thinks that you should not get out!

I am young, have young children and a husband with ALS, it has been almost three years since the diagnosis, I have got help, I had no choice, the guilt you go through as a care giver is tremendous, especially when all the above happens, I kept on saying it was the disease... It is not the disease, it is the person, and how they cope... I was told by him a few days ago that I was nothing but a pain in the ass! This was after I gave him a pedicure, shower, shaved him and fed him lunch! Is he projecting? I do not know, but I know that it has gotten abusive.

I have thoughts of Peace! Peace for me and the kids, sex? what is that! I think that we all have many thoughts that cause us guilt.. But just because you have thoughts does not mean you will act on them. How dare anybody criticize a thought! I have had friends suggest that they have someone for me, to which I laugh and say I am starting a convent! I guess I just do not even have the energy to think of it.

We all have thoughts that make us wonder, that are out of character! come on admit it! even you Paula B, does that make you or us evil?

I would think a forum like this would be to share positive feedback, to share experiences, but not to judge! To understand that everybody is facing the same diagnoses or caring for someone with the same diagnosis. That it is probably one of the hardest things we will ever face.

Peace to you all, enjoy the moment, and stay positive!

[Pearl]

I really don't think that anyone here was trying to "judge" - I think most speak from their own experience and put themselves in the place of the situation before they respond. As I stated in my first post of this thread, it really depends a lot on the type of marriage you had to start with - people marry for many different reasons and what is "ok" for some , is not for others.

We all have "thoughts". Those cannot be helped. And, I think, most of us absolutely do the very best we can.

Catarina, it sounds like you really could use a break from time to time. Do you have anyone to turn to to handle the care while you get away with friends for awhile? My heart goes out to you. Hang in there.

[MtPockets]

You go girl. Amen to what you said.

I had a dad that sounds a lot like your other half. My dad drove me nuts before he died with all his hatred and mean ways. He died after a long time of Alzheimer's. Toward the end he became more and more abusive. But he was no saint all his life. He was abusive to many people for 86 years.

I feel some of your pain in your message. I hope somehow you can get some relief or find a home care facility to take care of him. You do have a life of your own and I know it will be hard to pick it up when he is gone because of all the memories. I hope somehow you find peace in the midst of this storm.
God Bless
Big AL
:cry:

[Al]

Hi Catarina. I don't think anyone was here to judge. We each have our own feelings and ways of dealing with things. Big Al could probably help me with this one but somewhere in the bible it says Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone. Nobody here is throwing stones. A lady asked for an opinion and she got it. Things sound different for you than for her. The advice for her may not apply in every situation. I hope you will be able to get some encouragement and some good advice here. AL.

[caregiver0204]

Thank you for standing up for those of us that have our trials. If we acted on our thoughts in our most troubled times things could and would turn out very badly. But our thoughts are there and try as we may some times they are not all full of love and roses this in no way means we do not care or love deeply.

[paula B]

i meant no harm,,only meant,,its clear how ya felt or the words evil would not have come out your mouth. I only repeated what was said.

[sufernan]

I am also young - just 37 years old and have a small child. The only thing that will help a caregiver through this difficult road is love, sex is only one way of expressing that love. There are other ways that love can be expressed which will make you feel as conected, speak with your partner and find out what works for you.
I like the way Pearl has responded to this topic. Thank you Pearl!
Katarina:
It is difficult to hear that your husband is reacting this way - taking care of a person that treats you like this is horrible. What are you going to do? My heart goes out to you and your children. I hope you feel supported by family and friends, and I hope you know that nobody (even if they are suffering with ALS) can treat you without respect.
Thank you for sharing with us!

[patricia1]

I don't know how to say this, but does anyone ever think about extramarital relations? I know it is terrible, but sometimes I get so frustrated and I have these thoughts and then I feel so guilty just for having them. Am I the only one - I feel like I am evil or something, but I was wondering if anyone else had issues with husband and wife relations. I love my spouse so much, but sometimes I feel like I am missing out. Is it selfish on my part to even have such thoughts?
you dont say if your husband is sick or you are, but if your thinking of cheating on him you are selfish your married, take care of yourself dont you have enough problems without adding.:evil:

[janf]

I have just been part. diag. als going for another diag. 2weeks emory als doc.. I am a happy married 53 year old. If I thought my husband would consider extramarital affair I would want to die right now. Try asking God to help you.:-D Its hard on us too. its hard once being somewhat sexy beautiful & desirable and now I struggle to walk. Im sorry this is just my opinion. I love my husband so much., that would break my heart....... :( may God Bless you and show you the way. janf

[jhviv]

catarina,

you tell my story and we share the same opinion.

francois, never feel guilty. everyone on this board has had those "selfish" thoughts whether they admit it or not. and the choice whether to admit it or not is how to deal with it.

me, I'm a 31 year old gay guy (today's my birthday) taking care of my partner of 6 years. I have all kinds of thoughts that I don't act on. The worst thing I can do is beat myself up about them (like catarina, i've got a PALS to do that for me).

find a therapist if your insurance covers it. I started seeing one shortly after the diagnosis (even though my crazyass husband refuses to do so), and its made a world of difference for me.

also, a very active fantasy life is nothing to feel guilty about.

[jhviv]

also,

as this awful disease progresses, if you're the primary caregive, you want have time for an affair.

moral dilemma averted. :twisted:

[emjoi]

So this thread has nothing to do with the "Blowing The Nose" thread?
("Blowing the Nose" is an euphemism, yes?)

:)

[Pearl]

quote: "So this thread has nothing to do with the "Blowing The Nose" thread?
("Blowing the Nose" is an euphemism, yes?)"


No, but I find that freaking hysterical that you would think that it is a euphemism.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[liz]

Pearl -

Maybe it is a euphemism in Australia???? :)

Liz

[Al]

No I think that a euphemism is that duck billed funny looking Aussie animal isn't it? LOL.

[liz]

I stand corrected. Have a nice day. :)

Liz

[Al]

You're kidding right Liz.??

[mlb]

How insensitive of your friends to say they have someone for you to meet... I would not consider it funny at all. Could your friends have seen something in you that your husband has also seen which would explain their/his behaviour? Being young is not an excuse.

Anna

[Sunshine]

I don't agree at all that everyone has those "selfish" feelings. How can anyone dream about having an affair when their love one is fighting for their lives??? How about thinking about the times when your love one wasn't sick? Everyone has a right to their own opinion but not all of us agree with the affair issue. Fantasy is totally different than seeking an relationship with someone else. My prayers are with everyone.

[CindyM]

Let's think about this from a practical standpoint. Having an affair sounds like WAY too much work when everyone is well and able to take care of themselves. Maybe I'm just lazy at heart, but why on earth complicate an already complicated situation?

[lcarlile67]

stay faithful - you will not be able to live with the guilt - plus the Lord will be displeased if you do not honor your wedding vows ... plus you probably love your spouse very much .... JUST give your hubby a thrill - touch him and caress him even if he can not do it back to you --- it might put a smile on his face ...( he is a man, and men will take any sexual gratification they can get - they can have one foot in the grave and still want to get a little thrill ) he would be happy for the attention ......... and don't worry about your own needs now - because there is a time and a season for everything and right now it is not about you getting your needs met - it is about DOING for OTHERS and doing it as you were taking care of Jesus himself .... " as you do unto others you do unto the Lord " --God will honor the faithful .... - then, if you are faithful in that Work -- God will bless you and honor you with meeting your needs in the future ..... That is just my advice -- and I don't judge you as some have harshly done -- yes, humans have feelings --- and you probably are lonely and want to be comforted --- let Jesus & God Comfort you . .. let your friends comfort you ... You won't find much comfort in a morally sinful and unethical situation -- it will only add to the pain and confusion .... you probably don't want to break his heart - and it would break his heart if you did that ... You can wait - till the time is appropriate ......there is time for you later -- right now, make his time the best it can be for him .,.....

[georgia]

I agree with the answers on this thread. I am new and am not facing the inability yet. But in reading the info on this it had said the sexual function was not affected I wondered how that worked out with how I read this disease worked. It sounds like when we are pregnat or raising small children Who is has time or energy. Want to MAYBE for one but not always both. Or sleep sometime sounded better.
We were adjusting to empty nest with this started so the how do you do it did cross my mind just not with someone else.

[CindyM]

Sleep, the kind you get when snoring on your pillow, still sounds great to me, Georgia! I can't remember who started this thread but sometimes being a caregiver feels overwhelmingly lonely. I suppose it is natural for a younger person just to want a little affection and romance. We maybe should have reminded her that an affair has long-term consequences for what is probably a short-term problem. Cindy

[patricia1]

I wonder if you were the one with als how would you feel of you knew your husband would have an affair. Remember life is not fair for you and especially your husband we all make sacrifices in life and this is yours too bad i cant say I feel bad for you There are other ways to skin a cat if you know what I mean. I think if you are thinking of an affair you never had a good marriage REMEMBER for better or worse :x

[shannonme]

A book that I just finished reading deals a bit with this issue. It's called You're Not You by Michelle Wildgen.

"Wildgen's first novel centers on Bec, a self-absorbed college student drifting through school and an affair with a married poetry professor, and it shows real promise. When Bec takes a summer job caring for Kate, a young married woman with Lou Gehrig's disease, it seems easy to spot the formula: lost soul comes of age through the wisdom and resolve of the terminally ill. Where Bec is anxious and aimless, Kate is sarcastic and at peace; despite paralysis, she teaches Bec to cook extravagant meals, fund-raises for ALS research and spouts wicked one-liners. But when Kate kicks out her cheating husband, Evan, Wildgen's writing becomes clear and determined, daring to spotlight an almost taboo subject—the need for sex among the sick. As Bec takes on more of Evan's roles, eventually moving into Kate's house, Bec's deep and conflicted feelings for her charge allow Wildgen to navigate the complicated moral territory of Evan's, or any young spouse's, responsibility to his terminally ill partner."

[CALS44]

I agree with a prior comment that you should feel free to express your true feelings, and God bless you for being so honest. I encourage you to be strong and faithful to your spouse. You will feel so much better about yourself, and your spouse will be spared further anguish.

"No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to us all. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it." 1 Corinthians 10:13

I like to think that by declaring your temptation to this group, that you will receive positive encouragement and strength from members of this chat group to support you in getting past the temptation and to a better place. I truly hope this helps and that you are working past this situation.